My first thread and personal views

[TraumaSandwhich]

Hello I would like to start off by saying that my name is John and I'm glad to be here speaking, -ish, to anyone reading this regarding the message I just received about my first reply asking me to come here, so here I go.

1. "What church do I attend?" I used to attend Divine Mercy until I converted to atheism, and before you stop reading right here and now I would like to say I am not here to yell or "troll" anyone I am here for what I believe to be the purpose of this website which is to explore and further my understanding of not just my own beliefs but the beliefs of others.

2. "What is your favorite bible verse?" Personally my favorite verse is in the book of Job when God descends unto Job and really lets him have it for questioning Him. Because this to me is such a moment of dramatic irony.

3. "How did Jesus find you?" I was originally raised Catholic however around high school I became an atheist.

And in case I submitted this thread wrongly I apologize I haven't been on the site very long.

[Basilissa]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Hello I would like to start off by saying that my name is John and I'm glad to be here speaking, -ish, to anyone reading this regarding the message I just received about my first reply asking me to come here, so here I go.

A cautious welcome. You are here for a reason - wants you back!

2. "What is your favorite bible verse?" Personally my favorite verse is in the book of Job when God descends unto Job and really lets him have it for questioning Him. Because this to me is such a moment of dramatic irony.

Oh, I love this book! Let's have a look at it.

Job 1:1-22
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
This is how we learn that Job was an impeccable follower of our Mighty .

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Our can do whatever He wants, and that of course includes chatting with Satan.

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
Basically, our makes a bet with Satan over faith of a good man.

13 And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
14 And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
So, in order to see who wins the bet, takes away Job's happiness, which includes wealth and life of his many children. (When is gambling with Satan, you have to expect some collateral damage).

20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.
22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

But Job continued to worship who took everything away from him!

In next chapters of the book, also makes Job very sick, but Job persists praising all of these trials.

3. "How did Jesus find you?" I was originally raised Catholic however around high school I became an atheist.

I guess atheist is better than Catholic, but you have to convert to true Christianity in order to be Saved.

[Mark L. Snyde, PhD]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Hello and welcome, John!

I am saddened to hear that you rejected God in high school. I suspect this has to do with being taught the wrong things about God as a Catholic. Had I been raised in such an environment with such absurd views on God, I might have rejected my religion as well.

God has brought you here to see how he is correctly to be worshiped, adhering strictly to His Word. Hopefully once you see how beautiful the unadulterated Word of God really is, you can be brought to salvation!

Regarding Job, he did not question God. He was a faithful and righteous servant of God. God visited all of those affliction on Job to demonstrate to Satan that no matter how much God toyed with his life, his faith would not be shaken. And Hallelujah, he won his wager too!

Let's look at the first chapter of the Book of Job:

1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Iob, and that man was perfect and vpright, and one that feared God, and eschewed euill.
2 And there were borne vnto him seuen sonnes, and three daughters.
3 His substance also was seuen thousand sheepe, and three thousand camels, and fiue hundred yoke of oxen, and fiue hundred shee asses, and a very great houshold; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the East.
4 And his sonnes went and feasted in their houses, euery one his day, and sent and called for their three sisters, to eate and to drinke with them.
5 And it was so, when the dayes of their feasting were gone about, that Iob sent and sanctified them, and rose vp early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: For Iob said, It may be that my sonnes haue sinned, and cursed God in their hearts: Thus did Iob continually.
6 ¶ Now there was a day, when the sons of God came to present themselues before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said vnto Satan, Whence commest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and sayde, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking vp and downe in it.
8 And the Lord sayd vnto Satan, Hast thou considered my seruant Iob, that there is none like him in the earth? a perfect and an vpright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth euill?
9 Then Satan answered þe Lord, and sayd, Doeth Iob feare God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on euery side? thou hast blessed the worke of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put foorth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the Lord said vnto Satan, Behold, all that hee hath is in thy power, onely vpon himselfe put not foorth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
13 ¶ And there was a day, when his sonnes and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brothers house:
14 And there came a messenger vnto Iob, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them,
15 And the Sabeans fell vpon them, and tooke them away: yea they haue slaine the seruants with the edge of the sword, and I onely am escaped alone, to tell thee.
16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heauen, and hath burnt vp the sheepe, and the seruants, and consumed them, and I onely am escaped alone, to tell thee.
17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Caldeans made out three bands, and fell vpon the camels, and haue caried them away, yea, and slaine the seruants with the edge of the sword, and I onely am escaped alone, to tell thee.
18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, & said, Thy sonnes, and thy daughters, were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brothers house.
19 And beholde, there came a great winde from the wildernes, and smote the foure corners of the house, and it fell vpon the yong men, and they are dead, and I onely am escaped alone to tell thee.
20 Then Iob arose, and rent his mantle, and shaued his head, and fell downe vpon the ground and worshipped,
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mothers wombe, and naked shall I returne thither: the Lord gaue, and the Lord hath taken away, blessed be the Name of the Lord.
22 In all this Iob sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

You see, God was like, "Hey Satan, check out my servant Job...look how righteous this dude is...Ha! in your face!"

But the devil chuckled, and pointed out that Job was only such a man because God had blessed him with many things.

And then God said, "Oh yeah? Watch this, I will mess him up real good, kill his children, his servants, his livestock, and I bet his faith will not fail!"

God really visited some wicked stuff on that dude, the kind of stuff that would make most of us go insane, but Job took it like a champ, and never doubted or cursed God.

But the devil was not satisfied...let's look at Chapter 2:

1 Againe there was a day when the sonnes of God came to present themselues before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himselfe before the Lord.
2 And the Lord said vnto Satan, From whence commest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to & fro in the earth, and from walking vp and downe in it.
3 And the Lord said vnto Satan, Hast thou considered my seruant Iob, that there is none like him in the earth; a perfect and an vpright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth euill? and still hee holdeth fast his integritie, although thou moouedst mee against him, to destroy him without cause.
4 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, Skinne for skinne, yea all that a man hath, wil he giue for his life.
5 But put foorth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
6 And the Lord said vnto Satan, Behold, hee is in thine hand, but saue his life.
7 ¶ So went Satan foorth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Iob with sore biles, from the sole of his foote vnto his crowne.
8 And hee tooke him a potsheard to scrape himselfe withall; and hee sate downe among the ashes.
9 ¶ Then saide his wife vnto him, Doest thou still reteine thine integritie? Curse God, and die.
10 But he said vnto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh; what? shall wee receiue good at the hand of God, and shall wee not receiue euill? In all this did not Iob sinne with his lippes.
11 ¶ Now when Iobs three friends heard of all this euill, that was come vpon him, they came euery one from his owne place: Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite; for they had made an appointment together to come to mourne with him, and to comfort him.
12 And when they lift vp their eyes afarre off, and knew him not, they lifted vp their voice, and wept; and they rent euery one his mantle, and sprinckled dust vpon their heades toward heauen.
13 So they sate downe with him vpon the ground seuen dayes, and seuen nights, and none spake a word vnto him; for they saw that his griefe was very great.

Satan said, "Let me have a crack at him, I'll make him curse your name." God was like, "You're on, do what you will with him, just don't kill him."

In Chapter 3, we see that Job cursed the day he was born, but he never cursed or questioned the Almighty:

1 After this, opened Iob his mouth, and cursed his day.
2 And Iob spake, and said,
3 Let the day perish, wherein I was borne, and the night in which it was said, There is a man-childe conceiued.
4 Let that day bee darkenesse, let not God regard it from aboue, neither let the light shine vpon it.
5 Let darkenes and the shadowe of death staine it, let a cloud dwell vpon it, let the blacknes of the day terrifie it.
6 As for that night, let darkenesse seaze vpon it, let it not be ioyned vnto the dayes of the yeere, let it not come into the number of the moneths.
7 Loe, let that night be solitarie, let no ioyfull voice come therein.
8 Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise vp their mourning.
9 Let the starres of the twilight thereof be darke, let it looke for light, but haue none, neither let it see the dawning of the day:
10 Because it shut not vp the doores of my mothers wombe, nor hid sorrowe from mine eyes.
11 Why died I not from the wombe? why did I not giue vp the ghost when I came out of the bellie?
12 Why did the knees preuent mee? or why the breasts, that I should sucke?
13 For now should I haue lien still and beene quiet, I should haue slept; then had I bene at rest,
14 With Kings and counsellers of the earth, which built desolate places for themselues,
15 Or with Princes that had golde, who filled their houses with siluer:
16 Or as an hidden vntimely birth, I had not bene; as infants which neuer saw light.
17 There the wicked cease from troubling: and there the wearie be at rest.
18 There the prisoners rest together, they heare not the voice of the oppressour.
19 The small and great are there, and the seruant is free from his master.
20 Wherefore is light giuen to him that is in misery, and life vnto the bitter in soule?
21 Which long for death, but it commeth not, and dig for it more then for hid treasures:
22 Which reioice exceedingly, and are glad when they can finde the graue?
23 Why is light giuen to a man, whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?
24 For my sighing commeth before I eate, and my roarings are powred out like the waters.
25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come vpon me, and that which I was afraid of, is come vnto me.
26 I was not in safetie, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet: yet trouble came.

I would invite you now to read the rest of the story, and see how God really made his point and won the wager with the devil by torturing his most faithful servant.

In the end though, God gave Job new children, servants and livestock so all was well with Job in the end.

It is a touching story about how a man's faith would not be shaken no matter how relentlessly God tested him to show the devil he was wrong.

I also invite you to look around our friendly forums and read all the great information we have regarding how God has blessed us.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Hello I would like to start off by saying that my name is John...

Hello, John. It's nice to "meet" you! Let me start by saying I completely understand why you would choose to convert to the belief of atheism when having been raised in such an odd, awkward, secretive cult like the catholic church. It would be ever so much easier to believe nothing matters, love doesn't exist, and no one cares when the other option is the ever-changing, ever-hiding, hypocritical, pedophilic, psychopathic cult of the papists.

But you see, the Bible tells us that we have all sinned; we have all committed evil acts (Romans 3:10-18). Because God is perfect and the ultimate in Goodness (Psalm 100:5; Psalm 106:1; Psalm 107:1; Psalm 135:3; 1 Chronicles 16:34; ), he is disgusted and enraged at our sinfulness. Essentially, He can’t stand us, and because He is God, He doesn’t have to because no one can make Him. He has decided that we deserve nothing less than eternal torture, and pain, and agony for having made a perfect God uncomfortable with the way we are not similarly perfect. The only appropriate punishment for sins committed against an infinite and eternal God is an infinite and eternal punishment (Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:11-15). This is why God created Hell. It’s only fair after all.

But check it out, Jesus Christ came to earth and died in our place! He didn’t have to do so, but He chose to do so. Jesus and God worked out The Ultimate Plan (2 Corinthians 5:21) because they’re pretty tight, being the Same Person (John 10:30), yet Different Persons (John 17:1). This plan was decided some time before we were ever born. It doesn’t really matter, since we probably wouldn’t have been consulted anyway, but They/He decided that Jesus would die temporarily to pay the penalty for our sins (Romans 5:8) so that God could forget all about them (Isaiah 65:17; Isaiah 43:25). Jesus paid the penalty He determined He (as God) required just so that we would not have to. Wasn’t that sweet?!?

Jesus' resurrection from the dead just goes to show that His death was sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. No mere human could have done that, thus proving Jesus is the one and only Savior (John 14:6; Acts 4:12)!

Now, if I were to offer advice, I would suggest you start reading the Holy Bible, all of it. We know that "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17). So to be safe, perhaps you should read the Holy Bible out loud so you can also hear it. Then you will have faith, and then you can be Saved!

[Faith_Machine]

Re: My first thread and personal views

...until I converted to atheism, and before you stop reading right here...

Sorry, I stopped reading right there.

...the purpose of this website which is to explore and further my understanding of not just my own beliefs but the beliefs of others.

I lied. I read a little further. Enough so to learn that you are confused about the purpose of this site. We're here to praise Jesus. Period.

[Attila's Wife]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Hello John and welcome. As others have already said, your problems probably arise from a combination of being "raised" a Papist and living in the Godless swamps of Florida.

Now I know that atheists pride themselves on what they mistakenly think is logic, so I would just like to comment on this:

I used to attend Divine Mercy until I converted to atheism

Whoa! That's some muddled thinking right there! Converted to atheism? Generally speaking, people convert from one religious faith to another, not to an absence of belief. Atheism is not a faith, it is an absence of belief, and as such I do not think you can convert to it.

I sincerely believe that has sent you here for a reason, and that reason is to save your soul. We will do what we can to help, but in the end it is between you and Our Lord.

Rest assured that we will pray for you, but in the end it is down to whether wants you. Remember Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

YiC
Attila's Wife

[Pastor Ed Lowman]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Hello I would like to start off by saying that my name is John and I'm glad to be here speaking, -ish, to anyone reading this regarding the message I just received about my first reply asking me to come here, so here I go.

1. "What church do I attend?" I used to attend Divine Mercy until I converted to atheism, and before you stop reading right here and now I would like to say I am not here to yell or "troll" anyone I am here for what I believe to be the purpose of this website which is to explore and further my understanding of not just my own beliefs but the beliefs of others.

2. "What is your favorite bible verse?" Personally my favorite verse is in the book of Job when God descends unto Job and really lets him have it for questioning Him. Because this to me is such a moment of dramatic irony.

3. "How did Jesus find you?" I was originally raised Catholic however around high school I became an atheist.

And in case I submitted this thread wrongly I apologize I haven't been on the site very long.

Friend, your introduction says very little to nothing about what made you register here and what you hope to accomplish. If, as it appears, you were traumatized by catlicks, then here is the place to begin the healing and praying. The road may be long, but it is rewarding (Proverbs 13:15; I John 1:7; 2 Tim 4:8).

Just remember that God is not interested in "exploring beliefs," just in being Saved™.

Matthew 13:9: Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 11:6: And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Luke 9:24: For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

I John 4:15: Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

James 1:21: Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Now tell us why you think that just because some priest-o-phile went diddling around in your pants that God doesn't exist?

Pastor Ed

[Alvin Moss]

Re: My first thread and personal views

What's that on your head, Trauma?

There are many Romans in my vicinity. They like to dangle images of the Lord Jesus in agony on the cross from around their necks as a sign of their great victory over God. They make their bread as car thieves, burglars and marijuana smugglers, the acursed marijuana smugglers being in the majority. The police often arrest them and put them in jail for many years and there are always more of them. Most of them are Mexicans.

Are you a Mexican? If so, are you in America illegally? If not, why did your parents try to make you into a Mexican through false teachings?

You must be very confused. You have come to the right place to get straight with Jesus.

We would like to know your story. Leave out nothing.

God Bless!

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

First off I would like to thank all of you for taking the time to respond to my post and second off I would like to thank most of you for your welcoming me. Regarding my usage of the word "convert" I simply used it in place of a different word I suppose "became" would have been better terminology but hindsight is 20/20. Regarding the Mexican thing I am not Mexican and I was raised mostly in Pennsylvania and then my Family moved to Florida a few years ago. Now regarding the statement about the "priest-o-phile" I was not molested as a child nor does molestation of any kind have any influence on my beliefs. I also think I made my purpose on this site fairly clear and that is that I haven't had much serious discussion about religion and I just want to talk to people about their beliefs and answer any question that might have of mine. Lastly this comment is directed directly at Mark Synde PhD. when you say that all was well in the end for Job at the book of Job I imagine that you mean "all was well in the end except all of Job's children died and then he had to raise a set of replacement kids all at once(unless God gave him a bunch of pre-grown kids which Job would have no emotional connections to) and the fact that all but 3 of Job's servant's died and were replaced and the mourning families of those servants both lost a father and an income provider and that God created another set of new people." All was well in the end except that right?

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: My first thread and personal views

All was well in the end except that right?

Job was the one who God loved so it stands to reason he should be rewarded.

I don't get your point.

Welcome to the forum

YIC

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum and my point is why would Job want replacement kids, I don't know if you have kids of your own(I don't) but from my own experience parents tend to love their kids so my point, one of them anyway, is that Job wouldn't want newer kids he would want his original children back. My other points are that God punishes hundreds of other families by killing Job's servants and whomever depended on Job's animals for food to feed their families as food was not so easy to come by back then.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum and my point is why would Job want replacement kids, I don't know if you have kids of your own(I don't) but from my own experience parents tend to love their kids so my point, one of them anyway, is that Job wouldn't want newer kids he would want his original children back. My other points are that God punishes hundreds of other families by killing Job's servants and whomever depended on Job's animals for food to feed their families as food was not so easy to come by back then.

But Jesus is using those people (who by definition are sinners) to make His point: they must have been created by Jesus with the specific intention of being used to punish Job.

Jesus created every thing.

The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. - Psalms 24:1

So He can do what He likes and anyone who angers Him better watch out.

Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. - 2 Chronicles 15:13

If those people were decent Christians they will be in Heaven for eternal life at Jesus' right hand; as would Job's kids.

I'm sure he loved them but as a Christian he would know that if they accepted Jesus they were Saved(r).

If they did not, then they would be in the Lake of Fire, even to this day. Writhing in agony for their crimes.

So you see, it all worked out, in the end.

YIC

[Alvin Moss]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum and my point is why would Job want replacement kids, I don't know if you have kids of your own(I don't) but from my own experience parents tend to love their kids so my point, one of them anyway, is that Job wouldn't want newer kids he would want his original children back. My other points are that God punishes hundreds of other families by killing Job's servants and whomever depended on Job's animals for food to feed their families as food was not so easy to come by back then.

Why would you assume that Job wouldn't want new children to replace the old? Of course he would need new children and he would have to sieze new servants. If you wear a hole in your shoe do you not get a new one?

You must be daft. What is that on your head, some devilish Jew hat? Where are the straps for your arms?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Job wouldn't want newer kids he would want his original children back.

No doubt they were teenagers. Smaller children are far cuter, smell better, and don't look uncomfortable when sitting on Daddy's lap. That would have been a Very Special Gift for Job to have been granted the opportunity to relive the first and most special part of fatherhood.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Why would you assume that Job wouldn't want new children to replace the old? Of course he would need new children and he would have to sieze new servants. If you wear a hole in your shoe do you not get a new one?

You must be daft. What is that on your head, some devilish Jew hat? Where are the straps for your arms?

One I didn't choose the picture that was put there for me by the website and two are you honestly comparing losing children to having a hole in your shoe? Do you think we should get rid of funerals and instead put all of that money into parents adopting a new kid to replace the old one? If you honestly believe that then I suppose you are lucky that you don't have kids.