[Basilissa]

Re: My first thread and personal views

And have miracles, which break natural order, cause total chaos? No in fact they seem to do the opposite yet when it comes to righting a wrong breaking the order is bad.

Sweetie, who are we to criticize God's judgements? Who knows, maybe one of these slain kids would have grown up to be a mass murderer.

And the if arose from earlier in the discussion because in the actual book it does not mention age so if you would like to believe they came as children that is fine. That is of course assuming that Job wanted to go through the process of parenthood again while I agree that I have heard from people I know who are parents that raising a child is rewarding I doubt that he would want to do so again at age, lets say 48 assuming his first kid was around 20, which is the youngest, I imagine, someone would have left home. And even if Job wanted to have more children who says that that makes what God did completely forgotten? And where did this new children come from?

Um, you know, how should I tell you this...

Babies do not come from cabbage...

were they taken from less devout people or did God make them fresh?

That is evolving into a really awkward conversation. Should I start with the birds and bees, or could you make me a favor and do a google search for the topic "where do babies come from?"

and if he did make them were they sinless and perfect like the last people God made or did he jut add sin to them?

Nobody is born sinless!!

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

What does that mean? What part of God's Will would you have us ignore and replace with Sin? How easily could you throw a child's soul into the pits of Hell just to avoid the less than happy moments of parenting?

Which parts? Well first I hope you don't teach your children to take slaves, or to stone the homosexual, or "an eye for and eye, a tooth for a tooth", or that they should offer dead animals to God, or that if your children hit you they should die, or if they curse you they die... should I go on?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Which parts? Well first I hope you don't teach your children to take slaves, or to stone the homosexual, or "an eye for and eye, a tooth for a tooth", or that they should offer dead animals to God, or that if your children hit you they should die, or if they curse you they die...

Why not? The Holy Bible states all these things. Why should I white-wash it? Why should I pretend God didn't really mean it back then, or that He changed His mind?

What you're missing is the fact that the Holy Bible also states that we must be obedient to the ruling power over us. That means we are compelled to obey the governing laws of the land (Romans 13:1-2). Slavery and capital punishment for such crimes as sodomy and backsassery are not currently legal choices, but once we have Dominion over the Nation, the Holy Bible will provide the perfect moral code by which legislation will be inspired!

should I go on?

Please do. I dare say I am more familiar with the Holy Bible than a stupid atheist. Sit up straight and pay attention and you just may learn something.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Sweetie, who are we to criticize God's judgements? Who knows, maybe one of these slain kids would have grown up to be a mass murderer.



Um, you know, how should I tell you this...

Babies do not come from cabbage...



That is evolving into a really awkward conversation. Should I start with the birds and bees, or could you make me a favor and do a google search for the topic "where do babies come from?"




Nobody is born sinless!!

I realize where people come from literally but I mean where the children taken from other families(after being born) or did God create them like Adam and Eve(who were without sin). And of course why would God prevent this mass murderer but not others?

[Basilissa]

Re: My first thread and personal views

I realize where people come from literally but I mean where the children taken from other families(after being born) or did God create them like Adam and Eve(who were without sin). And of course why would God prevent this mass murderer but not others?

Job 42:7-17
7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the Lord commanded them: the Lord also accepted Job.
10 And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.
11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
12 So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.
14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
15 And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.
17 So Job died, being old and full of days.

Can't you see? Job died happy. What else could a human dream of?

[Naomi Ruth Lamb]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Sister Basilissa, Father is in his prayer closet right now because he said he envied Job for having a thousand she-asses. Men covet the strangest things. Ah well, he is a righteous man. Mother looked at him in a scornful way. Parents can be so entertaining.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Job 42:7-17
7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.
9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the Lord commanded them: the Lord also accepted Job.
10 And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.
11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
12 So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.
14 And he called the name of the first, Jemima; and the name of the second, Kezia; and the name of the third, Kerenhappuch.
15 And in all the land were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job: and their father gave them inheritance among their brethren.
16 After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.
17 So Job died, being old and full of days.

Can't you see? Job died happy. What else could a human dream of?

Why not he was 140 years old I would be happy to but this just adds to the ridiculousness of the book, people can't live to be 140 now let alone back then.

[Tim C]

Re: My first thread and personal views

I suppose what I'm trying to say is i feel that Job got screwed in this deal, while he may have been okay with this, I doubt he actually would have been, but it is possible. I think that this book really says more about God because he simply allows Lucifer, one of his creations, to mess with his others creations which he supposedly loves/doesn't care about/hates all not believers/hates all gays regardless of belief. To be honest I think the only winner here is the Devil because God let him mess with and(if even only for a week) ruin the life of one of God's best believers.

My Friend, I'm truly saddened by your ignorance towards the ways of the Lord. Are you even listening to my brethren here? You claim to admire the story of Job, yet you are missing the whole point, and it's obvious you are suffering from misplaced values. Though others in this thread have tried to correct your thinking already, let me try and extrapolate on the true meaning we are getting at. Think about this, what good is having family, money, happiness, and general success in life? They're going to be of no use to you when you are burning in HELL for eternity!

Matthew 16:26 --
"For what is a man profited, if hee shal gaine the whole world, and lose his owne soule? Or what shall a man giue in exchange for his soule?"

Jesus asks us to lay down everything that life offers and become followers of Him. Now as you pointed out, Job's life was filled with a multitude of blessings. But God unleashed Satan on him because he wanted to see if the Lord was still number 1 in Job's life. And after seemingly losing everything, all WAS well for Job because when the dust cleared, he still had the Lord's favor. And he earned it by remaining steadfast in his faith, love and obedience to his creator! Nothing is more important than that, not children, family or even your own happiness! Job understood one thing: When God has called you to a life of misery and persecution, your only choice is to obey him (or suffer the eternal consequences!!!) Not only that, but you should be grateful for the chance to live a life of servitude and worship in honor of your Creator!

Indeed, all things of this world pale in comparison to the prize of Eternal Salvation that awaits for us in Heaven! There are plenty of reminders of this simple fact written in the Word:

Colossians 3:2

Matthew 19:21

Matthew 6:19-21

Stop ignoring God! Do away with all your false idols and self obsession! Don't be ungrateful for the life God has given you, Get on your knees and repent, you arrogant sinner!

[Basilissa]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Why not he was 140 years old I would be happy to

You would be happy to do what?

Also. He was way older than 140 years when he died, he lived 140 years after the whole ordeal.

but this just adds to the ridiculousness of the book, people can't live to be 140 now let alone back then.

Right, 140 would be a very short lifespan in Biblical context. Some folks lived up to 969 years back then (Genesis 5:27).

[James Hutchins]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Well than I suppose we will once again have to agree to disagree because we clearly differ in what we view as proper feelings for a child. We could continue going back and forth but that would get us nowhere I believe it was wrong but all of your do not so we have reached the end of our discussion. I would like to thank everyone for volunteering their opinion and wish all of you a merry Christmas.

Friend, it is not my 'opinion' or way of thinking. It is what God expects us to do. Tell me, do you really hate Him so much to feel the need to find invisible fault with every detail of His Perfect Plan(r)?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Indeed, all things of this world pale in comparison to the prize of Eternal Salvation that awaits for us in Heaven!

Wise counsel, friend! I pray this mouth-breathing atheist will take your words to heart.

[Tim C]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Friend, I have a lot of kids. As in any large family, some die. God wants us to go on and I have. My wife can always have more. Servants have died too (being they seem to change from time to time, who really notices).

The point being, if you love God (and that is all that matters if you are a real Christian), the actual individual child means nothing, it is the dedication a husband has shown Jesus by committing the 'act' with his wife for all the times throughout his life to show God that his wife should be with child. To be honest, who really has the time to waste on getting to know children in this fast paced life we all live.

Since the thread turned to the subject of children and their perceived vs. actual worth in the eyes of the Lord, here's another illustration from the Bible that may speak to our new heathen forum member.

Father Abraham was tested by the Lord in a similar way to Job. God wanted to know Abraham's level of devotion, so he asked him to sacrifice his son Issac. So Abraham marched his Son up a mountain to an Altar (which was normally used for animal sacrifices) where upon he was to slay and burn the body of his only Son. And what happened then, you'd like to know? Just as Abraham was about to thrust his knife into Issac, an angel appeared to inform Abraham that God was just joking the whole time! And because of his obedience to the Lord, Abraham was allowed to continue to live a full life! Hallelujah!

Just like Job, Abraham was prepared to lose everything in order to win God's approval. Abraham's faith was so strong, he was ready to slaughter his own son! Only when you obey only the word of god, put down your selfish desires (for worldly things like family, money, power and fame) and live for him, can you truly live a holy and meaningful life.

Below is the entire passage about Abraham. I suggest you read it in entirety and reflect on your sinful nature before it's too late. You may never get another chance! I'm praying for you my friend...

Genesis 22:1-18

1 And it came to passe after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said vnto him, Abraham. And hee said, Beholde, heere I am.

2 And he said, Take now thy sonne, thine onely sonne Isaac, whom thou louest, and get thee into the land of Moriah: and offer him there for a burnt offering vpon one of the Mountaines which I will tell thee of.

3 And Abraham rose vp earely in the morning, and sadled his asse, and tooke two of his yong men with him, and Isaac his sonne, and claue the wood for the burnt offering, and rose vp, and went vnto the place of which God had told him.

4 Then on the third day Abraham lift vp his eyes, and saw the place afarre off.

5 And Abraham said vnto his yong men, Abide you here with the asse, and I and the lad will goe yonder and worship, and come againe to you.

6 And Abraham tooke the wood of the burnt offering, and layd it vpon Isaac his sonne: and he tooke the fire in his hand, and a knife: and they went both of them together.

7 And Isaac spake vnto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my sonne. And hee said, Behold the fire and wood: but where is the lambe for a burnt offring?

8 And Abraham said, My sonne, God will prouide himselfe a lambe for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

9 And they came to the place which God had tolde him of, and Abraham built an Altar there, and layd the wood in order, and bound Isaac his sonne, and layde him on the Altar vpon the wood.

10 And Abraham stretched foorth his hand, and tooke the knife to slay his sonne.

11 And the Angel of the LORD called vnto him out of heauen, and said, Abraham, Abraham. And he said, Here am I.

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand vpon the lad, neither do thou any thing vnto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withhelde thy sonne, thine onely sonne from mee.

13 And Abraham lifted vp his eyes, and looked, and beholde, behinde him a Ramme caught in a thicket by his hornes: And Abraham went and tooke the Ramme, and offered him vp for a burnt offering, in the stead of his sonne.

14 And Abraham called the name of that place Iehouah-ijreh, as it is said to this day, In the Mount of the LORD it shalbe seene.

15 And the Angel of the LORD called vnto Abraham out of heauen the second time,

16 And said, By my selfe haue I sworne, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy sonne, thine onely sonne,

17 That in blessing I will blesse thee, and in multiplying, I will multiply thy seed as the starres of the heauen, and as the sand which is vpon the sea shore, and thy seed shall possesse the gate of his enemies.

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed my voice.

[Mark L. Snyde, PhD]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Very nice illustration of what devotion to God should be all about...above and beyond everything else.

If God told me to hack-n-stack my family, I would gladly do so.

[James Hutchins]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Very nice illustration of what devotion to God should be all about...above and beyond everything else.

If God told me to hack-n-stack my family, I would gladly do so.

As any Christian would, without question. Obey Him or go to Hell.

[Tim C]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Wise counsel, friend! I pray this mouth-breathing atheist will take your words to heart.

Alas, I fear he has already turned and fled from the harsh truths being dispensed here. May his hardened heart be cast into the eternal flame. And speaking of flaming.. did anyone else seem to notice his preoccupation with coming to the defense of faggots?

Which parts? Well first I hope you don't teach your children to take slaves, or to stone the homosexual, or "an eye for and eye, a tooth for a tooth", or that they should offer dead animals to God, or that if your children hit you they should die, or if they curse you they die... should I go on?

I think that this book really says more about God because he simply allows Lucifer, one of his creations, to mess with his others creations which he supposedly loves/doesn't care about/hates all not believers/hates all gays regardless of belief.