[Alvin Moss]

Re: My first thread and personal views

One I didn't choose the picture that was put there for me by the website and two are you honestly comparing losing children to having a hole in your shoe? Do you think we should get rid of funerals and instead put all of that money into parents adopting a new kid to replace the old one? If you honestly believe that then I suppose you are lucky that you don't have kids.

Your depraved logic wanders all over the place.

If your children die, you do not stop having children. We are bid by the Lord to multiply. If your wife dies, you get a new one. When the children die, the Lord provides more. There are always more children until we get to old to make them.

I have many children and even more grandchildren.

You don't know what you are talking about. We see this all the time.

[James Hutchins]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum and my point is why would Job want replacement kids, I don't know if you have kids of your own(I don't) but from my own experience parents tend to love their kids so my point, one of them anyway, is that Job wouldn't want newer kids he would want his original children back. My other points are that God punishes hundreds of other families by killing Job's servants and whomever depended on Job's animals for food to feed their families as food was not so easy to come by back then.

Friend, I have a lot of kids. As in any large family, some die. God wants us to go on and I have. My wife can always have more. Servants have died too (being they seem to change from time to time, who really notices).

The point being, if you love God (and that is all that matters if you are a real Christian), the actual individual child means nothing, it is the dedication a husband has shown Jesus by committing the 'act' with his wife for all the times throughout his life to show God that his wife should be with child. To be honest, who really has the time to waste on getting to know children in this fast paced life we all live.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Friend, I have a lot of kids. As in any large family, some die. God wants us to go on and I have. My wife can always have more. Servants have died too (being they seem to change from time to time, who really notices).

The point being, if you love God (and that is all that matters if you are a real Christian), the actual individual child means nothing, it is the dedication a husband has shown Jesus by committing the 'act' with his wife for all the times throughout his life to show God that his wife should be with child. To be honest, who really has the time to waste on getting to know children in this fast paced life we all live.

Well than I suppose we will once again have to agree to disagree because we clearly differ in what we view as proper feelings for a child. We could continue going back and forth but that would get us nowhere I believe it was wrong but all of your do not so we have reached the end of our discussion. I would like to thank everyone for volunteering their opinion and wish all of you a merry Christmas.

[Basilissa]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum and my point is why would Job want replacement kids, I don't know if you have kids of your own(I don't) but from my own experience parents tend to love their kids so my point, one of them anyway, is that Job wouldn't want newer kids he would want his original children back.

But see, that was not possible, because all of his original children were already dead.

News flash for ya: every year thousands of parents see their children die, but that does not stop them from having new ones. I have no idea where your ideas come from, even scientists think that people want to preserve the species, something like that.

My other points are that God punishes hundreds of other families by killing Job's servants and whomever depended on Job's animals for food to feed their families as food was not so easy to come by back then.

That's collateral damage. Like I said in my first post, you have to expect that when God is gambling with Satan.

[Mark L. Snyde, PhD]

Re: My first thread and personal views

...Lastly this comment is directed directly at Mark Synde PhD. when you say that all was well in the end for Job at the book of Job I imagine that you mean "all was well in the end except all of Job's children died and then he had to raise a set of replacement kids all at once(unless God gave him a bunch of pre-grown kids which Job would have no emotional connections to) and the fact that all but 3 of Job's servant's died and were replaced and the mourning families of those servants both lost a father and an income provider and that God created another set of new people." All was well in the end except that right?

While my Brothers and Sisters in Christ have done a fine job of addressing this point, I felt that since you addressed me specifically, I should be courteous enough to give my own response.

Job's love for his benevolent Creator was so great that he was simply happy with whatever strife or blessings God chose to bestow upon him. We could all stand to follow Job's fine example. God tells us it is hard for our members when we lust after the things of this world:

James 4:1 (1611 King James Bible)

From whence come warres and fightings among you? come they not hence, euen of your lusts, that warre in your members?

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

But see, that was not possible, because all of his original children were already dead.

News flash for ya: every year thousands of parents see their children die, but that does not stop them from having new ones. I have no idea where your ideas come from, even scientists think that people want to preserve the species, something like that.



That's collateral damage. Like I said in my first post, you have to expect that when God is gambling with Satan.

Yes because as we all know God cannot bring people back from the dead, unless it's his own son in which he can obviously do that. Just for the record I didn't say it was wrong to have more kids I said that god giving Job a bunch of kids he had no emotional tie to is not a good replacement for is original children.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

While my Brothers and Sisters in Christ have done a fine job of addressing this point, I felt that since you addressed me specifically, I should be courteous enough to give my own response.

Job's love for his benevolent Creator was so great that he was simply happy with whatever strife or blessings God chose to bestow upon him. We could all stand to follow Job's fine example. God tells us it is hard for our members when we lust after the things of this world:

Well first I would like to say thank you for taking the time to form this response. Secondly I suppose what I'm trying to say is i feel that Job got screwed in this deal, while he may have been okay with this, I doubt he actually would have been, but it is possible. I think that this book really says more about God because he simply allows Lucifer, one of his creations, to mess with his others creations which he supposedly loves/doesn't care about/hates all not believers/hates all gays regardless of belief. To be honest I think the only winner here is the Devil because God let him mess with and(if even only for a week) ruin the life of one of God's best believers.

[Basilissa]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Yes because as we all know God cannot bring people back from the dead,

He can if He really wants to (see Lazarus).

But think of the natural order of things - if God started to revive too many people, don't you think it would lead to a total chaos?

Just for the record I didn't say it was wrong to have more kids I said that god giving Job a bunch of kids he had no emotional tie to is not a good replacement for is original children.

And why do you think Job didn't have emotional ties to his new kids? Do you think he was some kind of a sociopath? (But then, he wouldn't be attached to his old kids, either).

Do you really think that parents cannot love their children born after the death of their first child? Sonny, you are seriously damaged!

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

He can if He really wants to (see Lazarus).

But think of the natural order of things - if God started to revive too many people, don't you think it would lead to a total chaos?



And why do you think Job didn't have emotional ties to his new kids? Do you think he was some kind of a sociopath? (But then, he wouldn't be attached to his old kids, either).

Do you really think that parents cannot love their children born after the death of their first child? Sonny, you are seriously damaged!

One why would reviving the children he killed for the sake of a bet lead to total chaos? And two I said he would have no emotional ties to his new kids if they arrived to him completely grown up. for example if all your children die and a week later a group of college age kids show up at your house and say "Hi were your new family!" How would you react? Would you love them just as much as you did your old family? would you have all those special memories of raising them and their first steps and their first word? No they would be complete strangers who wouldn't even be living with you because when Job's kids die at least some of them had moved out.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Well first I would like to say thank you for taking the time to form this response. Secondly I suppose what I'm trying to say is i feel that Job got screwed in this deal, while he may have been okay with this, I doubt he actually would have been, but it is possible. I think that this book really says more about God because he simply allows Lucifer, one of his creations, to mess with his others creations which he supposedly loves/doesn't care about/hates all not believers/hates all gays regardless of belief. To be honest I think the only winner here is the Devil because God let him mess with and(if even only for a week) ruin the life of one of God's best believers.

Friend, you say you don't have any children. I, on the other hand, am blessed with a great many wonderful children. I work diligently to train them up in the way of the LORD (Proverbs 22:6), and I can tell you from experience, this sometimes means watching them learn that life is not fair, but teaching them that great rewards do come to those who love the (Galatians 3:29; Colossians1:12; II Corinthians 9:6).

[Basilissa]

Re: My first thread and personal views

One why would reviving the children he killed for the sake of a bet lead to total chaos?

It would be breaking the rules of natural order.

And two I said he would have no emotional ties to his new kidsif they arrived to him completely grown up.

That's a very big "if." Could you refer me to the verse that leads you to this supposition?

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Friend, you say you don't have any children. I, on the other hand, am blessed with a great many wonderful children. I work diligently to train them up in the way of the LORD (Proverbs 22:6), and I can tell you from experience, this sometimes means watching them learn that life is not fair, but teaching them that great rewards do come to those who love the (Galatians 3:29; Colossians1:12; II Corinthians 9:6).

Well that is completely up to you and your husband so I won't even attempt to tell you how to raise your children, I just hope for their sake that you aren't too religious

[Mark L. Snyde, PhD]

Re: My first thread and personal views

Well first I would like to say thank you for taking the time to form this response. Secondly I suppose what I'm trying to say is i feel that Job got screwed in this deal, while he may have been okay with this, I doubt he actually would have been, but it is possible. I think that this book really says more about God because he simply allows Lucifer, one of his creations, to mess with his others creations which he supposedly loves/doesn't care about/hates all not believers/hates all gays regardless of belief. To be honest I think the only winner here is the Devil because God let him mess with and(if even only for a week) ruin the life of one of God's best believers.

Yes, if you view it with a secular mind, you might think, wow...God really messed up Job's life just to make a point with the devil when he called Him out. What kind of horrible monster would toy with a man's life just to win a wager?

However, that would be to miss the big picture. Whatever God does is just and righteous. Our tiny minds may not be able to comprehend His motives at times, but that certainly doesn't mean they are wrong in any way. God tells us in His Word that He is perfect, i.e., without sin:

Matthew 5:48 (1611 King James Bible)

Be yee therefore perfect, euen as your father, which is in heauen, is perfect.

So, even if we think something God has done is horrible, this only demonstrates our lack of understanding of God. In so thinking, we are at fault, as God can never be blamed.

[TraumaSandwhich]

Re: My first thread and personal views

It would be breaking the rules of natural order.



That's a very big "if." Could you refer me to the verse that leads you to this supposition?

And have miracles, which break natural order, cause total chaos? No in fact they seem to do the opposite yet when it comes to righting a wrong breaking the order is bad.

And the if arose from earlier in the discussion because in the actual book it does not mention age so if you would like to believe they came as children that is fine. That is of course assuming that Job wanted to go through the process of parenthood again while I agree that I have heard from people I know who are parents that raising a child is rewarding I doubt that he would want to do so again at age, lets say 48 assuming his first kid was around 20, which is the youngest, I imagine, someone would have left home. And even if Job wanted to have more children who says that that makes what God did completely forgotten? And where did this new children come from? were they taken from less devout people or did God make them fresh? and if he did make them were they sinless and perfect like the last people God made or did he jut add sin to them?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: My first thread and personal views

I just hope for their sake that you aren't too religious

What does that mean? What part of God's Will would you have us ignore and replace with Sin? How easily could you throw a child's soul into the pits of Hell just to avoid the less than happy moments of parenting?