[Zechariah Smyth]

Originally Posted by Perkele123

Why Should jesus be included in everythin? Should he be included in my *** blasphemy removed *** to?

Watch your filthy mouth, son.

(Matthew 15:11) "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[seanbreen]

Yo all, i was fascinated by this post and decided to add my own little piece to it.

so first a little back ground on myself. For the 18 years of my life i have been a devoted christian. When i was born i was born with a hole in the heart and a growth on my brain requiring two operations in order to solve these issues, keep in mind this was 1900's the doctors told my parents i wouldn't make it, so they prayed and their friends prayed, and their church prayed, a little girl in our church had a picture of me in the operating room with a man in white cloths standing there holding my hand, at the same time my mom had the same picture at home of Jesus standing next to the operating bed standing next to me. Even further, today people are still blessing me with pictures and such, and despite playing a game you declare "Demonic" I have had numerous pictures for a multitude of people, and prayed for healing for hundreds of people of which have been healed by the grace of God, i have been home schooled all my life and it was very unlikely i'd get into college, despite this tiny chance with my three C's and two E's, i prayed, and with all the Odds against me i got into college.

So after playing the so called "Demonic" Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion, I have a few things to add to this post as well as a few arguments to raise here.

"It is a "Role-Playing Game" for the computer, very similar to the well-known Satanic Dungeons & Dragons."
First off, you say it is a role playing game? Does that make it demonic by Generic quality? I say no, The reason being is because Lord of the rings online is a Role playing game, yet it's based on the world of Lord of the rings which was created and written by the very strict christian called J.R.R Tolkien which parallel Christianity a lot, does the fact that there's a role playing game based on his books make it demonic?

y"you can pick various "races" for your character, including several demonic looking characters called "elves". With their pointed ears and eerie non-human appearances."
secondly the idea of Demonic Races such as the mentioned Elves, again the Elves in the game Oblivion are very heavily based on Tolkien's idea of changing the Generic idea of Elves, does this once again make Tolkien a strict christian demonic?

"the game is chock ful of blasphemous magic and witchcraft. The player is able to perform a variety of spells such as hurling fire from one's hands, turning oneself invisible, forcing others' against their will to obey and listen to the character, and conjuring up demons from Hell to fight for the player. In fact, magic and witchcraft are a major part of the game and it's difficult to play the game without resorting to these Satanic means."
As for this, i actually laughed at this as you have clearly done no research, the game is entirely possible to play without resorting to the means of the magic system of the game, and in fact it is a very minor part of the game and plays no major role at all.

"The game makes no mention of God or Jesus Christ, instead it pushes a mythology of "Nine gods". You can go to heretical chapels and actually pray to these gods in this game and they heal you!"
Ah so now we bring the mythology into this discussion, first off let me remind you that this game is an entirely made up thing, there is no link for it to the real world, unlike J.K Rowling's harry potter series, and once again we go back to Tolkien who made up an entire universe where there was a complete made up mythology, same with C.S Lewis's Narnia, does this make both of those books demonic because they don't mention Jesus?

"There is a realm called "Oblivion" which is definitely just Hell with a different name. You are required to go through this Hell environment during the game."
The very definition oh Hell is the place those who don't believe go after death, the realm of Oblivion is not a place dead souls go to in this particular game, on top of that the reason you pass through this realm is in order to close the gates which lead into Oblivion thus saving the world the game is set in, does it not say in the bible "though i walk through the valley of death i shall feel no fear"? This idea is a very reflection of that, the main hero passes through this area to save the world without fear. I.E "the valley of death"

"thieving and stealing are promoted in the game. You are allowed to pickpocket other people and steal possessions. One questline of the game actually REWARDS the player for this sinful behavior!"
Only thing i have to say to this point is to emphasis free will, a role playing game is ultimately about making choices, I.E free will.

"You can do quests for these demons called "Daedra". By doing these quests, these demons reward you. This tells our children that by serving demons they will get rewarded."
I won't deny the truth behind this, but it is wrong to an extent, if you look into the lore and story behind the elder scrolls games, the Daedra are not demons, nor are they evil, they're simply the opposite of the nine, and in fact one of them is incredibly nice to the human population of the game in general, helping them without asking for anything in return.

"alcohol in the form of beer, wine, and brandy is available to the player and can be drunk"
This again is one fact that is true, yet drinking the beer and what not in the game has no real effects on the player on top of that once again i shall emphasis the idea of free will. Role playing games take the free will we have been given in real life and places it into the game world.

"This game promotes astrology. Upon creating a character, you are forced to choose a "birthsign". More occult ideas pushed upon the impressionable player"
Ah yes the birthsigns at the beginning of the game, now the first thing i shall highlight here is that the birthsigns in the game are completely real, they are not the constellations used in real life astrology and astrology is no further used throughout the entire game.

"There are vampires in the game and a few of them are portrayed as "good guys"."
Now for the final point you made, yes it is, and for a long time this made me uneasy, but i'll tell you that in the game you don't have to talk to the single vampire portrayed as a good guy, the rest are either hostile NPC's or vampires you kill for quests to save someone or something.

After reading the comments and replies to this thread I have no doubt i shall be branded a heretic and non christian yet by the blessings of God i am alive, and have had an excellent education bless and heal people through prayer and am blessed and healed through others prayers, yet i have played and still play a game you brand as Demonic. Hope you enjoy this read of mine.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by Sheogorath2

....tl;dr.....

What Church do you attend young lady?

[seanbreen]

And here we have proof of your idea of assumption, you say i am a girl? I am in fact an 18 year old young man attending Jubilee church, and you have proved my point by placing me under investigation after raising a few questions as well as explaining my reasoning?

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Originally Posted by Sheogorath2

And here we have proof of your idea of assumption, you say i am a girl? I am in fact an 18 year old young man attending Jubilee church, and you have proved my point by placing me under investigation after raising a few questions as well as explaining my reasoning?

Too be fair you do post like a female. It is the obvious assumption.

God bless

[seanbreen]

Originally Posted by Dr Laurence Niles

Too be fair you do post like a female. It is the obvious assumption

Why? Because i post my objections and questions in a structure that would be considered intelligent? The way i structured that reply is the way a essay in reply to such a subject would be structured, distinguishing between Genders because of how a post is written is what 99% of people call Idiocy and sexism, it's as bad as how the ancient Greeks treated woman.

[Nobar King]

Thanks for proving that people who like this trash have holes in their hearts.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

it's as bad as how the ancient Greeks treated woman.

So now we know why you are really here: to trample over our most cherished beliefs

Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for man.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee .

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Psalms 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.
25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Matthew 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife , and children, and all that he had , and payment to be made.

1st Corinthians 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1st Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

1st Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1st Corinthians 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1st Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1st Corinthians 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1st Corinthians 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1st Corinthians 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1st Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1st Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

1st Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1st Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1st Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1st Timothy 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1st Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1st Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1st Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1st Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1st Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing , if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed .

1st Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1st Peter 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
1st Peter 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1st Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1st Peter 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1st Peter 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women ; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

God bless

[seanbreen]

Woman are there to be assistants to men yes, that does NOT mean you can treat them as lesser beings they are still created in gods image, and as for proving that people have holes in their heart if they like this stuff, first off that was when i was BORN, hence i did not know of this game then, heck it never existed back then, so then basically according to you, someone is born automatically doomed to burn in hellBecause they automatically like stuff you call Demonic? This forum isn't Christianity, this forum is based on old testament ideas of "you're not one of us so you shall burn" go ahead and ban me, i don't want to be part of a forum with those sort of idea's. as for trampling all over your beliefs, Woman are made in the image of God as well, they have souls as well, they are human as well, yes they should be submissive to their husbands, No they should not be treated like a dirty old rag you throw out when your finished with it. making an assumption about someone being a woman because they post something that you say "is like a woman" is the very definition of Sexism, and you know what? Even the ancient greeks weren't that bad.

[Alphonse Alban]

Originally Posted by Sheogorath2

This forum isn't Christianity, this forum is based on old testament ideas of

You do know that Jesus is the one known as Christ?

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

These are words of Jesus. What do they say about the Old testament?

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by Sheogorath2

...making an assumption about someone being a woman because they post something that you say "is like a woman" is the very definition of Sexism...

So what's NOT sexist about this:

Woman are there to be assistants to men yes...

[Bobby-Joe]

Originally Posted by Sheogorath2

Woman are there to be assistants to men yes, that does NOT mean you can treat them as lesser beings they are still created in gods image, and as for proving that people have holes in their heart if they like this stuff, first off that was when i was BORN, hence i did not know of this game then, heck it never existed back then, so then basically according to you, someone is born automatically doomed to burn in hellBecause they automatically like stuff you call Demonic? This forum isn't Christianity, this forum is based on old testament ideas of "you're not one of us so you shall burn" go ahead and ban me, i don't want to be part of a forum with those sort of idea's. as for trampling all over your beliefs, Woman are made in the image of God as well, they have souls as well, they are human as well, yes they should be submissive to their husbands, No they should not be treated like a dirty old rag you throw out when your finished with it. making an assumption about someone being a woman because they post something that you say "is like a woman" is the very definition of Sexism, and you know what? Even the ancient greeks weren't that bad.

And the cheese is something to die for? I play Skyrim friend, do go having a usename of "Sheogorath" AKA the king of tranny rape (or as Skyrim puts it; "Wabberjacking") and then call for tolerance and harmony.

[queerliberal]

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe

And the cheese is something to die for? I play Skyrim friend, do go having a usename of "Sheogorath" AKA the king of tranny rape (or as Skyrim puts it; "Wabberjacking") and then call for tolerance and harmony.

Sheogorath is the daedric prince of madness, not "tranny rape." By the way, "tranny" is a slur and should not be used at all, nor should rape be talked about lightly.

Also, the "wabbajack" is just a weapon given to you if you complete his daedric quest (and before you say its demonic summoning magic or some shit like that, it's not; the staff just makes something random happen each time you use it).

[Bobby-Joe]

Originally Posted by queerliberal

Sheogorath is the daedric prince of madness, not "tranny rape." By the way, "tranny" is a slur and should not be used at all, nor should rape be talked about lightly.Also, the "wabbajack" is just a weapon given to you if you complete his daedric quest (and before you say its demonic summoning magic or some shit like that, it's not; the staff just makes something random happen each time you use it).

A demon is a demon, what ever shit nonsense name they give themselves. The fact this is all about fag drag queens should be obvious with the name "daedra"

I mean come on man - look at the way Skyrim does its best to force the player character to gay marry Vilkas just so they can show that three way cut scene with Vilkas, his power bear Faras and the Dragonborn.

[BumbleGear]

Hello, I can see how this game can upset you. I am a Christian myself but I am also a huge fan of the game, and the whole series. But I noticed on your list you have gotten many things incorrect. And I want to show you my take on it...

- Elves are not Demons. The Eleven race originated from the book The Lord of The Rings, written by J.R.R Tolkien. (A Christian writer) I'm sure you are familiar with it. These Elves are just another race, just like all the others in the selection.

- Although you can cast spells, it is entirely optional. No one is forced to use magic. And it is not difficult to play the game with out it.

- The game is based around mythology. Of course there is no mention of God or Jesus. In fact, it does not even take place in the same universe. It takes place on the continent of Tamriel, on the planet of Nirn. So the entire thing is made up. And yes, the prayer thing is true. But no one goes into a 30 minute prayer session. You just tap the space bar and you're good.

- Although they share a similar appearance, Oblivion is not Hell. You are required to go in there to beat the story line, but it can be completely ignored all together.

- Stealing is NOT promoted. Although you CAN steal, city's and towns are heavily guarded. You will be taken to Jail or fined if caught. Telling the player go at your own risk.

- No, No, No Daedra are the enemy! That's the whole point of the Oblivion crisis! You're supposed to be the hero! To cast out the Daedra! You also can't do quests for them. In another point. These demons are not our demons. This is a completely different universe.

- Yes Alcohol is in the game. But the game is rated M! If you're so concerned about this game corrupting our children then don't let them play rated M games it's simple!

- Birth signs are nothing more than deciding what fits your play style best. Be it the Warrior, or the Steed. Etc.

- Vampires are despised, and hated in the land of Cyrodill. If you become one no one will want anything to do with you. Forcing you to find a cure.

There are down sides to this game yes, it was not developed by Christians but I HIGHLY doubt it was created to promote Satanism. It is obvious you looked through as I like to call "Cherry picking" through the game and picked out ALL the bad stuff and made it sound as horrible as possible.

What about when you are praised as the "Hero of Kvatch!" When you saved a City from being corrupted by an Oblivion gate?

What about when you rid a cave of necromancers terrorizing an Inn just below?

What about when you are praised as the "Champion of Cyrodill!" When you extinguish the the Oblivion crisis from the world and save everybody? (not to mention once you beat the game you never see another Daedra again)

Or one of my personal favorites, when you save a kidnapped daughter for a worrying Mother. And are humbly thanked whenever you walk into the store she owns.

Oblivion is not only one of my favorite games, but A LOT of people's. You are treated to a beautiful soundtrack, Gorgeous scenery of the lush green outside world of Cyrodill. Epic med eval combat. And amazing story of over coming your enemies when all hope seems lost. If this story was a novel, in the hands of J.R.R Tolkien, I don't think he would change a thing.

[Alvin Moss]

That sounds like a list of excuses for sinning.

I doubt the Lord will be impressed with any of them.

Drinking strong whiskey, elves, magic, worship of false Gods, necromancers, vampires and more attrocities are promoted in this game.

You call yourself a Christian?

[seanbreen]

Hey, look who's back, it's everyone's favourite "under Investigation" the guy who "Writes like a woman" yeah it's him, Sheogorath PRINCE OF MADNESS (that's a joke if you stiffs didn't get it), so question regarding this thread, if Oblivion is so "Evil" then what about one of the single greatest most influencial christian Writers of the modern era, the man himself, yeah you know who he is, J.R.R Tolkien, the man who's genius mind invented a world and story that mirrors Christianity so well and made such an impact on the world....is he evil? what about Narnia, another series that mirrors Christianty is that evil? I'm confused, because you al scream "HERETIC" at me...yet I notice very few of you have actually provided counter arguments.... funny...i'd have thought Christians would want to act well towards people they consider "None believers" and explain to them what the faith is...yet all I've had on this site is conviction, assumption about who i am, been told I'm going to hell with no chance what so ever, is it not a Christians Job to spread the faith and be kind to others as Jesus did? Did Jesus ever condemn another man personally? NO course he didn't, he gave warnings sure, but HE SPENT TIME WITH SINNERS and TALKED to them, he didn't condemn them, and he's our example as Christians.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by seanbreen

Did Jesus ever condemn another man personally?

"DOGS" Matt. 7:6 Jesus said, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs" (see also 2 Peter 2:20-22, Rev. 22:15)
"SWINE" Matt. 7:6 "...neither cast your pearls before swine"
"VIPERS" Matt. 3:7 "O generation of vipers..." (see also Matt. 12:34, 23:33 and Luke 3:7)
"HYPOCRITES" Matt.6:2 "...as the hypocrites in the synagogues..." (see also Matt.6:5, 16, 15:7, 16:3, 22:18, 23:13-15, 29, 24:51, Mark 7:6, Luke 11:44, 12:56)
"CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL" John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil..." (see also Acts 13:10)
"PERVERSE" Mat. 17:17"...O faithless and perverse generation" (see also Luke 9:41, Acts 20:30, Phil. 2:15, 1Tim. 6:5)
"REPROBATE" 2Cor 13:5-7 "...except ye be reprobates" (see also Rom 1:28, 2Tim. 3:8, Tit. 1:16)
"HEATHEN" Mat. 6:7 "...as the heathen do" (see also Mat.18:17, Act 4:25, 2Cor. 11:26, Gal. 1:16, 2:9, 3:8)
"FOOLS" Mat. 23:17 "...Ye fools and blind" (see also Luke 12:20, 1Cor.15:36, Mat.23:19, Luke 11:40, 24:25, Eph. 5:15)
"O YE OF LITTLE FAITH" (Christ's favorite name for His apostles!) Mat.6:30, 8:26, 14:31, etc., etc., etc.
"STIFFNECKED AND UNCIRCUMCISED" Acts7:53 "...stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart"
"LIARS, EVIL BEASTS, SLOW BELLIES" Titus 1:12 (see also 2Peter 2:12, Jude 10)
"ADULTERERS AND ADULTERESSES" Hebrews 13:4 "...whoremongers and adulterers God will judge" James 4:4 "Ye adulterers and adulteresses..." (see also Rom 7:3, Mat. 12:39, 16:4, Mark 8:38)
"WHITED WALL" Acts 23:3 Paul to the high priest .

[Pooter kid]

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

This doesn't look demonic to you? I think the picture speaks for itself! Red eyes, pointed ears, demonic face, hellfire in the background, and speaking words of death and self-importance!

Bit that's not an elf, that's a demon. You piffle those things. 'nuff said. I love piffleing them.