[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Why would God torture, people forever? Is that rational?

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

The bible does not teach that.

Oh really?

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

There are many Christian beliefs, all with different understandings. Does that mean the bible is wrong, or is it different ones having different understandings?
After all ,we are all using the same book.

Here are the possibilities:

1. One church has it right, and the rest are wrong.
2. God is too incompetent to get His point across.
3. God doesn't care what we believe.
4. The Bible isn't God's word to begin with.
5. There is no God.

If you believe any of 2-5, then in what sense are you a Christian?

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

There are many Christian beliefs, all with different understandings. Does that mean the bible is wrong, or is it different ones having different understandings?
After all ,we are all using the same book.

There is the TRUE Christian(tm) way of simply reading The Bible as written, and the various Hell bond lies of Satan only a Homosexual (as in Atheist, Union Worker Illegal Alien or Democrat) would listen to.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

In all these scriptures there is no mention of creating them, at this time. He said let there be light in the expanse.

If you go to a show say, and it is dark. And you hear the Master of ceremonies say let there be light, and lights come on , do you think he just created the lamps and light bulbs. No.
Or you could go to the show and the master of ceremonies pulls back the curtain and says let there be light, ( the light has always been on. But now you can see it. )

That is cherry-picking at its most extreme. I've already shown you the verses that say that God made the lights and set them in the firmament of the heaven and that He did so on the fourth day. You keep saying that the Bible interprets itself, so let it.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The Landover Baptists have repeatedly quoted Bible verses to you that teach that God will torture people forever. Your response has pretty much been, "La la la, I can't hear you." You just quote other Bible verses that say something different.

So you've managed to prove that the Bible contradicts itself and that, at least according to some parts of the Bible, your God behaves in ways that you find to be irrational. That's hardly a stirring defense of your faith.

There are many Christian beliefs, all with different understandings. Does that mean the bible is wrong, or is it different ones having different understandings?
After all ,we are all using the same book.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

You've explained nothing. That verse does not say that God made the light more visible by clearing the atmosphere. It says that He made the lights.

Let's continue with your analogy of the robot. If on the fourth day you made a pre-existing robot jump up and down, would you say, "And on the fourth day I made the robot"? I'm sure we can agree that that would be inexcusably sloppy writing.

What's more, the next verse says that He set them in the firmament of the heaven. Why would He have had to do that if they'd been there all along?

Genesis 1:3 (English Standard Version)

3And God said,(A) "Let there be light," and there was light.

Genesis 1:3 (King James Version)

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


Genesis 1:3 (New American Standard Bible)

3Then (A)God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.


Genesis 1:14 (New American Standard Bible)

14Then God said, "Let there be (A)lights in the (expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for ©signs and for (D)seasons and for days and years;

Genesis 1:14 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:


In all these scriptures there is no mention of creating them, at this time. He said let there be light in the expanse.

If you go to a show say, and it is dark. And you hear the Master of ceremonies say let there be light, and lights come on , do you think he just created the lamps and light bulbs. No.
Or you could go to the show and the master of ceremonies pulls back the curtain and says let there be light, ( the light has always been on. But now you can see it. )
God did not mess up when writing the Bible. Could it be that sometimes religions get the understanding wrong.
This is why the scientists, laugh at religions, because their interpretations of the scriptures is not rational, not real.
Nowhere in those verses does it say God just created the sun or moon. He just said let there be light.

[Oliver Brendan Hayve]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Why would God torture, people forever? Is that rational?
The bible does not teach that. It is religions that teach that.
He will get rid of people that are against him, but he does not torture them.
And the goal is that God want's perfect people, to fill the earth just like he said , with Adam and Eve. Nothing has changed. It is going to happen and just like he said with Adam and Eve. So at the end of God's rest day Jesus will hand the earth and mankind back to God in the condition he said it would be. And in the same time frame. ( that is what the 1,000 years are for.) At the end of that , the bible says new scrolls will be opened, so a whole new purpose will be told to man. And where is the limit in that?

Man was created for the earth, this is not just a testing ground, because Satan was in the heavens and failed, so did some angels.

This is rational, this is what we see, and this has always been the purpose for man. It's just that most don't want it. Just like in Noah's time, 8 people out of about 1 million survived.

Any way , if any one wants a specific question answered, I will try to do that, but , if not , I'll slip away.

The Landover Baptists have repeatedly quoted Bible verses to you that teach that God will torture people forever. Your response has pretty much been, "La la la, I can't hear you." You just quote other Bible verses that say something different.

So you've managed to prove that the Bible contradicts itself and that, at least according to some parts of the Bible, your God behaves in ways that you find to be irrational. That's hardly a stirring defense of your faith.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Dear friend, it appears to me that you are the sort of "Christian" who decides a priori what to believe and then adapts Scripture to fit. Instead, you should start with God's Word and then adapt your beliefs to fit.

If I can't back it with scriptures that don't contradict, each other, then don't listen to me. God meant the bible to be understood. And all the scriptures are inspired.
It is a contradiction to say on one hand the dead have no knowledge , or work or any thoughts , or memory and on the other hand say, he lives on. Being tortured some place. The bible said we are the same as the animals in death. So are the animals being tortured, some place after they died?

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Well I gave the explanation for that, in my post.
If I create a robot, and then made it jump up and down. I can say I made it do that, but it doesn't mean I recreated it. God made the light more visible by clearing the atmosphere, so he made the sun and moon and stars visible from earth.

You've explained nothing. That verse does not say that God made the light more visible by clearing the atmosphere. It says that He made the lights.

Let's continue with your analogy of the robot. If on the fourth day you made a pre-existing robot jump up and down, would you say, "And on the fourth day I made the robot"? I'm sure we can agree that that would be inexcusably sloppy writing.

What's more, the next verse says that He set them in the firmament of the heaven. Why would He have had to do that if they'd been there all along?

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

A lot of myths of some basis of truth. That doesn't mean I'm going to accept the legend of Troy or something. There's plenty of mistakes in the Bible.

Historical Errors in the Bible

I went through with you many questions you asked and I answered them.
I have been through these types of questions , with people who want to try anything, to prove the bible wrong.
The reality is, how many questions answered, does it take you to realize that 'evolution' is just a myth. Do you still believe in 'evolution'?
If you do, then is it rational for me to go to the trouble of answering these questions , will it get you anywhere, in your thinking?
And there are no errors in the bible. Not everything is totally answered, but then it doesn't need to be.
I have come across people that have lists of supposed problems with the bible and have answered all so far. My confidence level is very high when it comes to things like this. These come from people who have not done their homework, and spread them around the internet.

I mean the scientists believe in 'evolution' and they no answers for anything.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

That's a pretty amazing rewrite of Scripture there, dear friend. When Genesis 1:16 says that God made the lights, it doesn't mean that they had been made a while back and that only at the later time did they become visible from the earth. Rather, "and God made" means "and God made." Any other reading is just wishful thinking.

Well I gave the explanation for that, in my post.
If I create a robot, and then made it jump up and down. I can say I made it do that, but it doesn't mean I recreated it. God made the light more visible by clearing the atmosphere, so he made the sun and moon and stars visible from earth.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

A preposterous interpretation that you put forth just because you dislike what the Bible says. It's a pity.

Why would God torture, people forever? Is that rational?
The bible does not teach that. It is religions that teach that.
He will get rid of people that are against him, but he does not torture them.
And the goal is that God want's perfect people, to fill the earth just like he said , with Adam and Eve. Nothing has changed. It is going to happen and just like he said with Adam and Eve. So at the end of God's rest day Jesus will hand the earth and mankind back to God in the condition he said it would be. And in the same time frame. ( that is what the 1,000 years are for.) At the end of that , the bible says new scrolls will be opened, so a whole new purpose will be told to man. And where is the limit in that?

Man was created for the earth, this is not just a testing ground, because Satan was in the heavens and failed, so did some angels.

This is rational, this is what we see, and this has always been the purpose for man. It's just that most don't want it. Just like in Noah's time, 8 people out of about 1 million survived.

Any way , if any one wants a specific question answered, I will try to do that, but , if not , I'll slip away.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

In Genesis 1:1 in the beginning God created the heavens and earth.

That includes the earth and everything else including the sun, moon and stars.

Many consider the word “day” used in Genesis chapter 1 to mean 24 hours. However, in Genesis 1:5 God himself is said to divide day into a smaller period of time, calling just the light portion “day.” In Genesis 2:4 all the creative periods are called one “day”: “This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day [all six creative periods] that God made earth and heaven.”

So does that mean all the creative days, are to fit in just one day? If you take this literally, then you have a contradiction, and the six creative days were not days at all but just a part of one day. What the bible is telling us that these we ages or time periods when things were done.

Now for the light.

Genesis 1:14 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:


First 'Day'
“‘Let light come to be.’ Then there came to be light. And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day.”—Genesis 1:3,*5.
Of course the sun and moon were in outer space long before this first 'day,' but their light did not reach the surface of the earth for an earthly observer to see. Now, light came to be visible on earth on this first “day,” and the rotating earth began to have alternating days and nights.
The light came in a gradual process, extending over a long period of time, not instantaneously as when you turn on an electric light bulb. The Genesis rendering by translator J. W. Watts reflects this when it says: “And gradually light came into existence.” (A Distinctive Translation of Genesis) This light was from the sun, but the sun itself could not be seen through the overcast. Hence, the light that reached earth was “light diffused,” as indicated by a comment about verse*3 in Rotherham’s Emphasised Bible.—See footnote b for verse*14. This is like a overcast day we get on the earth today.

Now on the Fourth 'Day'
Genesis 1:14-16 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The Hebrew word there used for “light” is ’ohr, meaning light in a general sense. But on the fourth 'day,' the Hebrew word changes to ma‧’ohr′, which means the source of the light. Rotherham, in a footnote on “Luminaries” in the Emphasised Bible, says: “In ver. 3, ’ôr [’ohr], light diffused.” Then he goes on to show that the Hebrew word ma‧’ohr′ in verse 14 means something “affording light.” On the first “day” diffused light evidently penetrated the swaddling bands, but the sources of that light could not have been seen by an earthly observer because of the cloud layers still enveloping the earth. Now, on this fourth 'day,' things changed.

Now, had there been an earthly observer, he would be able to discern the sun, moon and stars, which would serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. (Genesis 1:14) The moon would indicate the passing of lunar months, and the sun the passing of solar years. The seasons that now “came to be” on this fourth 'day' would no doubt have been much milder than they became later on.—Genesis 1:15; 8:20-22.

So God did not create the sun or moon twice, or did he create the sun after the earth. I was created when he created the heavens and the earth.

I'll get to the Hell, question.

That's a pretty amazing rewrite of Scripture there, dear friend. When Genesis 1:16 says that God made the lights, it doesn't mean that they had been made a while back and that only at the later time did they become visible from the earth. Rather, "and God made" means "and God made." Any other reading is just wishful thinking.

Please explain how the verb in the original Hebrew (וַיַּעַשׂ, which is a finite form of עָשָׂה) can mean passively allowing something that was there earlier to mainifest itself. (By saying this, I am not detracting from the Divine preservation of the King James Bible; I am simply producing additional evidence for my point.)

Dear friend, it appears to me that you are the sort of "Christian" who decides a priori what to believe and then adapts Scripture to fit. Instead, you should start with God's Word and then adapt your beliefs to fit.

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

It's truly a myth that religion and logic does not go together. It goes together because the Bible has been confirmed by archeology many times in the past.

A lot of myths of some basis of truth. That doesn't mean I'm going to accept the legend of Troy or something. There's plenty of mistakes in the Bible.

Historical Errors in the Bible

[crown33]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

It's truly a myth that religion and logic does not go together. It goes together because the Bible has been confirmed by archeology many times in the past.