[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Again, you talk about scientists as all having the exact same opinions, which they do not.

What part of what is there do you not believe in? Are you saying there have never been any mutations? Are you saying species never have beneficial adaptations? And if you believe the world has been around for billions of years, why can you not believe that God worked evolution?

The Bible also says God created all of the mountains (Amos 4:13). Yet we know that mountains took billions of years of erosion, volcanic activity and shift tectonic plates to be formed. Are the scientists lying about this too?

Adaptations are one thing, that is why we have variety in dogs for example. But adaptation does not make a dog something other than a dog.
Mutations happen, they are usually bad. But mutations do not change a dog into something other than a dog. You can not get across the DNA barrier.

The scientists could be correct about the mountains, maybe some of the time lines, but that is only a maybe. Can you trust their dating methods, who knows. But generally the scientist are correct that it took a long time, for the earth and life to come about. Certainty more than 6, 24 hr, days.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Why, but WHY are you incapable of understanding that evolution has NOTHING to do with how the first life started?! It only has to do with how we see life acting now. Believing in evolution does not mean you have to believe that life just popped out magically from the ground. How many times do I have to say that? Evolution is NOT about how life started!

It's not that I am incapable to understand what the scientists are saying about 'evolution' and the start to life. It is that they are wrong about saying that.
There is no difference to the start to life and all life.
If the start to life is creation , than all life was created.
Life comes from life.
That is what there is evidence for. There is no other evidence.
'Evolution' as the scientists are saying , demands that there was a non creative start to life. But the scientists say from what they know now, is impossible. So they have a problem. No creative start to life, no 'evolution' . They are the same thing. If they want to say that God when he created life programmed into that life the ability to make all the variety we have now. Is in contradiction, in the life we see. Because a dog gets more dogs , so all there would be is a world full of dogs, nothing else.
DNA requires intelligence, there is DNA in life,. DNA is responsible for the completed animals we see today, that is all creation. Mutations do not make a dog into something other than a dog. And they are usually bad.
There is no difference from the start to life and the variety in all life we see.
So my three facts are :

Life comes from life
Dogs get more dogs
there is design in life.

Many scientists have received awards for copying creation. Because of the great design that is there.

So when scientists say the start to life and 'evolution' are separate things, that is circler thinking. You think one thing is correct ('evolution') which means the other has to be correct (even though there is no evidence for that)
The bible supports the science that we have. That is rational.
'Evolution' goes against all three facts. That is irrational.

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

A number of contradictions here.
The first is , creation as the beginning of life is not the evolution that that the scientists are professing.
For example If you say God created the and the earth but not life, but life came from the materials on the earth. Did not God set up the materials for life on the earth. So that they would react properly so that life could start. That would be like the scientists taking the material on the earth bring them into a lab and getting life to start. That is creation, of life. The other thing is that we don't see that still happening today. Life does not just pop out of the ground.

Why, but WHY are you incapable of understanding that evolution has NOTHING to do with how the first life started?! It only has to do with how we see life acting now. Believing in evolution does not mean you have to believe that life just popped out magically from the ground. How many times do I have to say that? Evolution is NOT about how life started!

Also did God set up 'evolution ' to work? If that is so, that is not what the scientists are saying, about it. They say it just happened as a huge chance, and that 'evolution' was mutations ( mistakes) that all happened to benefit life.

Again, you talk about scientists as all having the exact same opinions, which they do not.

What part of what is there do you not believe in? Are you saying there have never been any mutations? Are you saying species never have beneficial adaptations? And if you believe the world has been around for billions of years, why can you not believe that God worked evolution?

The Bible also says God created all of the mountains (Amos 4:13). Yet we know that mountains took billions of years of erosion, volcanic activity and shift tectonic plates to be formed. Are the scientists lying about this too?

Besides I never hear from the scientists that God created the universe and started life, there is no mention of a God

When I go to the doctor, he never tells me that the sin of my disease is sin and that God has caused it. (If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee. -- Exodus 15:26)

Likewise, when I listen to the weather report on TV, the meteorologist never takes the time to explain that God is in control of the weather, and that if you pray hard enough God might change it (1 Samuel 12:18 So Samuel called unto the LORD; and the LORD sent thunder and rain that day. )

This doesn't mean all doctors and weather men are atheist satan-worshipers. It just has nothing to do with going about their job.

The question that goes with this , to the scientists is, what was there before the material universe? If it was energy, where did that energy come from?

Again, you ignorantly suggest that all scientists are atheists, when that is not true at all.

Can you understand no beginning? I can not. I can understand no end. But no beginning I think is beyond human understanding.

And yet you say God has no beginning, and that is perfectly rational to you.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I can ask you, where is the start and the end to the universe, if there was no material in it?
Can you understand no beginning? I can not. I can understand no end. But no beginning I think is beyond human understanding.

I should have used the word 'space' in this sentence rather than universe.

I can ask you, where is the start and the end to ' space', if there was no material in it?

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Theistic evolution


Can You Believe in Evolution and Be a Christian?


Can a Christian believe in evolution?


A Christian Who Believes in Evolution


These are but a few of the people who disagree. But let me guess, they are all demon-possessed because they do not believe as you do.

Observing Evolution - How Evolution Has Been Observed

How did God get started? Be sure to be rational.

A number of contradictions here.
The first is , creation as the beginning of life is not the evolution that that the scientists are professing.
For example If you say God created the and the earth but not life, but life came from the materials on the earth. Did not God set up the materials for life on the earth. So that they would react properly so that life could start. That would be like the scientists taking the material on the earth bring them into a lab and getting life to start. That is creation, of life. The other thing is that we don't see that still happening today. Life does not just pop out of the ground.
Also did God set up 'evolution ' to work? If that is so, that is not what the scientists are saying, about it. They say it just happened as a huge chance, and that 'evolution' was mutations ( mistakes) that all happened to benefit life. Did God also put the DNA in life? If that is so what does any of this have to do with 'evolution'.
Besides I never hear from the scientists that God created the universe and started life, there is no mention of a God. Is it that they are starting to see there has to be a God?

Besides man was made from the dust of the ground and the breath of life was given him. There is a lot more involvement, than just creating the universe.

This all is so irrational , that it make those scientists worst than the others.


As to how did God get started?

The bible says God was always there. That is the only answer there can be. I just have to accept that.

The question that goes with this , to the scientists is, what was there before the material universe? If it was energy, where did that energy come from?

I can ask you, where is the start and the end to the universe, if there was no material in it?
Can you understand no beginning? I can not. I can understand no end. But no beginning I think is beyond human understanding.

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

They don't believe in the God of the bible then, because the bible says all the universe and life was created. There would be no links between man and apes. Because the bible says man was created from the dust of the ground. And different animals and plants were created at separate times.

Theistic evolution


Can You Believe in Evolution and Be a Christian?


Can a Christian believe in evolution?


A Christian Who Believes in Evolution


These are but a few of the people who disagree. But let me guess, they are all demon-possessed because they do not believe as you do.

'Evolution' isn't real, it is only in the minds of some scientists.

Observing Evolution - How Evolution Has Been Observed

If life can't start on it's own , and it can't start by 'evolution' ( as the scientists themselves say) Which eliminates chemical 'evolution',( how does anything get started?

How did God get started? Be sure to be rational.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

How many times do I have to explain this. Evolution does not have ANYTHING to do with how life formed. It merely explains how life behaves. I'm not trying to convince you there is no God. I'm not trying to tell you how the first life was formed. I just don't see how you can deny that the life that is already here has evolved.

You are aware that the majority of people who believe in evolution also believe in God, right?

They don't believe in the God of the bible then, because the bible says all the universe and life was created. There would be no links between man and apes. Because the bible says man was created from the dust of the ground. And different animals and plants were created at separate times.
So that is a contradiction with those scientists. That is not rational.

'Evolution' isn't real, it is only in the minds of some scientists. It's not something that happens in the real world. So for scientists to put some sort of boundaries on something that is not real, is not rational.
If life can't start on it's own , and it can't start by 'evolution' ( as the scientists themselves say) Which eliminates chemical 'evolution',( how does anything get started? The only hope for the scientists is that they find some life just popping out of the ground, like magic.
If life can only start by creation, then all the theories of 'evolution' are meaningless . And you can only say they were created.
To get working DNA into life anywhere, takes intelligence. That is why the scientists can't figure it out. ( it's not that the scientists don't have intelligence,... well you know what I mean)

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

This is the same old stuff.
In the first place DNA kills 'evolution'. 'Evolution' could never get past, this. DNA is a set of complicated programming, that gives all the code make a host. The very first DNA would have had , no programming at all. It is without heredity. No information about , how to make a cell for example, let alone thousands or millions to make some animal. DNA without heredity can not mutate something it doesn't have. so you can't get bone material for example from nothing. Where did the instructions come from to make DNA that is usable? I already mentioned the scientists say it is really impossible for RNA and proteins to form . Because they need each other to do it. The RNA is a precursor to DNA, but you need the programming. So 'evolution' has nothing to work with. Even just a cell that divides, you can not split into 2 half's or it will die. This cell does not know it has to survive, it would not know how to, and yet it would have to do this before it dies and it would have to do this correctly the first time, no mistakes. And then it is only a copy of the first cell. Still no heredity.
The reality is that the scientists can not get past this first hurdle. What scientists say, is this will happen , somehow on it's own. ( not very scientific)
By the way this doesn't work, with higher animals either. But you would never get to that point.

How many times do I have to explain this. Evolution does not have ANYTHING to do with how life formed. It merely explains how life behaves. I'm not trying to convince you there is no God. I'm not trying to tell you how the first life was formed. I just don't see how you can deny that the life that is already here has evolved.

You are aware that the majority of people who believe in evolution also believe in God, right?

[Two-Dollar Bill]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Who can argue with math like that?

I believe the boffins call this "fuzzy numbers".

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

[QUOTE]

Actually, less than 40% of scientists say there is no God. That leaves 2/3rds of them that do.

[/COLOR]www.livescience.com/379-scientists-belief-god-varies-starkly-discipline.html
[COLOR=blue]

By comparing human genetic patterns around the earth, scientists have found clear evidence that all humans have a common ancestor, a source of the DNA of all people who have ever lived, including each of us. In 1988, Newsweek magazine presented those findings in a report entitled “The Search for Adam and Eve.” Those studies were based on a type of mitochondrial DNA, genetic material passed on only by the female. Reports in 1995 about research on male DNA point to the same conclusion—that “there was an ancestral ‘Adam,’ whose genetic material on the [Y] chromosome is common to every man now on earth,” as Time magazine put it.
Now in recent years, some scientists are saying they can take this even further back . To apes or what ever.
But the answer is still the same, humans came from one pair.
The other thing is if the scientists keep revising earlier claims , when is there a final and correct answer? Is today's science fact, tomorrows science fiction?
The bible was written thousands of years ago, and the words there are still the same, still relevant, and still up-to-date. ( even with science)
No one needs the scientists OK to believe in a God or not. No one needs to know any science at all. Most people in history, didn't.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (King James Version)

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


This holds true for religions and scientists. What this is saying, people will want teachers that will tickle their ears, and tell them what they want to hear. This frees them up so that they can do what they want, with no accountability.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

You are so wise, epignosis! Scientists have no proof at all of evolution. All those fossils were surely planted there by Satan and carbon dating and DNA research is undoubtedly all lies. And you're absolutely right that scientists know absolutely nothing about the origins of life, nor how to solve ANY of mankind's problems. Indeed, you are correct, my brother, only a fool would EVER trust anything scientists say. Scientific research IS totally a dead end.

I find it interesting that you said you almost became a scientist. I'm glad you didn't become a scientist! You would have wasted your time reading textbooks written by the agents of Satan who poison minds with so-called "knowledge", causing people to question and doubt the Lord's holy word. Having avoided such "schooling," your mind is as open to His Truth as the Grand Canyon and you are among the few fortunate enough to be able read and fully accept the Truth in the only book worth reading, the Holy Bible (KJV). May His words echo in your hollow mind, uncluttered with useless information.

Actually I did not almost become a scientists, I am and artist, and pursued that. But I do like to find out how things work. So science interests me.
But if you think about it ,it takes a lot of schooling and peer pressure, to get someone to think 'evolution' actually happens. Because that is not what we see every day in our world. That is not what there is evidence for.

I am not wise ( certainly not on my own). And a belief in a God is the last thing I thought I would be interested in.

2 Timothy 3 (King James Version)

2 Timothy 3

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

But there is truth, because we are here and real , there has to be a real answer. It's just where do you find it? before I became interested in a God, I became like a scientist and had to get proof every little step of the way.
It was a journey, and sometimes not easy. I do not consider myself religious in anyway. But a searcher, for the real answers.

[Tea_Party_Minister]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Actually, less than 40% of scientists say there is no God. That leaves 2/3rds of them that do.

Who can argue with math like that?

[Tea_Party_Minister]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

It's true that the scientist have no proof of 'evolution' and have no answers for the start to life [...]

[...] But there is no salvation from the scientists, they will not be able to solve mankind's problems, so it is really foolish to trust in the scientists. It is a dead end.

You are so wise, epignosis! Scientists have no proof at all of evolution. All those fossils were surely planted there by Satan and carbon dating and DNA research is undoubtedly all lies. And you're absolutely right that scientists know absolutely nothing about the origins of life, nor how to solve ANY of mankind's problems. Indeed, you are correct, my brother, only a fool would EVER trust anything scientists say. Scientific research IS totally a dead end.

I find it interesting that you said you almost became a scientist. I'm glad you didn't become a scientist! You would have wasted your time reading textbooks written by the agents of Satan who poison minds with so-called "knowledge", causing people to question and doubt the Lord's holy word. Having avoided such "schooling," your mind is as open to His Truth as the Grand Canyon and you are among the few fortunate enough to be able read and fully accept the Truth in the only book worth reading, the Holy Bible (KJV). May His words echo in your hollow mind, uncluttered with useless information.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

[QUOTE=Bogdana Alkeav;734789]Actually, less than 40% of scientists say there is no God. That leaves 2/3rds of them that do.

[/COLOR]www.livescience.com/379-scientists-belief-god-varies-starkly-discipline.html
[COLOR=blue]




This is the same old stuff.
In the first place DNA kills 'evolution'. 'Evolution' could never get past, this. DNA is a set of complicated programming, that gives all the code make a host. The very first DNA would have had , no programming at all. It is without heredity. No information about , how to make a cell for example, let alone thousands or millions to make some animal. DNA without heredity can not mutate something it doesn't have. so you can't get bone material for example from nothing. Where did the instructions come from to make DNA that is usable? I already mentioned the scientists say it is really impossible for RNA and proteins to form . Because they need each other to do it. The RNA is a precursor to DNA, but you need the programming. So 'evolution' has nothing to work with. Even just a cell that divides, you can not split into 2 half's or it will die. This cell does not know it has to survive, it would not know how to, and yet it would have to do this before it dies and it would have to do this correctly the first time, no mistakes. And then it is only a copy of the first cell. Still no heredity.
The reality is that the scientists can not get past this first hurdle. What scientists say, is this will happen , somehow on it's own. ( not very scientific)
By the way this doesn't work, with higher animals either. But you would never get to that point.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I know! They can't prove themselves right, can they, epignosis?! Of course they are getting further away from the truth! They should give up and just read the Holy Bible (KJV).

You obviously know a lot about science and their so-called "contributions" and I appreciate you sharing your wisdom here. You're sure right that scientists always state conclusions before having evidence. That's the "scientific method" as I understand it. Silly scientists!

I know what you mean, scientists haven't discovered anything in 150 years and they are getting nowhere, wasting time and money with all that so-called "research." Don't they realize that all the answers are in the Holy Bible (KJV)?! And what idiots those college students are, trying to understand silly things like atoms and cells and micro-organisms. HA! Fools! Only God can understand those things...

It's true that the scientist have no proof of 'evolution' and have no answers for the start to life.
But they have learned many things along the way. From the bible we are told almost nothing about all the life that has come and gone, we knew nothing about DNA, and cells and atoms etc. Many things have been learned in chemistry, mathematics,and astronomy. What about all the galaxies, and stars and really how big the universe is. And I don't expect the scientists to know everything, to come to a conclusion. But I do expect evidence and rational thinking. Also when they don't know about something like the start to life, why don't they say that creation is possible, because they don't know it isn't creation. In other words to be honest about it. And say that.
For myself the scientists have open up a lot of very interesting things, I like to explore and learn and figure things out and to create. Scientists have given me all of this. I would have liked to be a scientist.
This also means I do not judge them as individuals, that is not my place.
I can say though if the thinking they come up with is from God or not, but that's it.
But there is no salvation from the scientists, they will not be able to solve mankind's problems, so it is really foolish to trust in the scientists. It is a dead end.