[Beyondthesmegma]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

He wasn't circumcised. He did not keep the dietary laws. He did not sacrifice to the correct God.


Strangely, I don't know. Maybe he could have accepted Jesus in his heart at the last second as long as he didn't blaspheme the Holy Ghost.


He was a hindaloo. He didn't believe in Jesus Christ. He merely admired Him.



Yes. The Bible speaks of it rather often.


Yes the Bible.


Then we have lost nothing, unless the Jews are correct. In that case, even fewer people will be going to Heaven.



Not really. You just have to surround yourself with other people who believe the same things, shut off your brain and listen for God's voice and read the Bible all the time. It's called faith! Thank you very much!

Can you show me that Socrates, Hitler and Ghandi are in Hell? Can I see if they're in Hell. Have you seen if they are in Hell? Do you have confirmation that they're in Hell? Of course not.

So just because the Bible says that it itself is true, will you believe that it is true? If I said I'm right because I said I was right, would you believe me? Of course not. Because just because somebody or something says that itself is true doesn't mean it necessarily is true.

Now, back to Hell. Aside from your Bible, which cannot be verified as true or false, do you have evidence that shows that any of these three individuals are in Hell. Can you? No, you can't.

You judge everything on one book that has to say it is true because it cannot be verified as true through any actual evidence. Keep in mind, the Bible was originally an oral script passed down from generation to generation. Do you think that those who wrote it down could have possibly "tweaked" the stories. Do you think that from being passed down from generation to generation things might have accidentally been forgotten?

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

How do you know Socrates is in Hell?

He wasn't circumcised. He did not keep the dietary laws. He did not sacrifice to the correct God.

How do you know Hitler is in Hell?

Strangely, I don't know. Maybe he could have accepted Jesus in his heart at the last second as long as he didn't blaspheme the Holy Ghost.

How do you know Ghandi is in Hell?

He was a hindaloo. He didn't believe in Jesus Christ. He merely admired Him.

AActually, let me ask you a broader question: does Hell exist?

Yes. The Bible speaks of it rather often.

Can you prove its existence?

Yes the Bible.

BTW just because the Bible says it is the one true word of God, do you actually think it is the one true word of God. How do you know it is the one true word of God? Can you prove it is the one true word of God? What if it isn't the one true word of God?

Then we have lost nothing, unless the Jews are correct. In that case, even fewer people will be going to Heaven.

It's a funny paradox, the chicken and the egg. And its the same with the truthfulness of the Bible.

Not really. You just have to surround yourself with other people who believe the same things, shut off your brain and listen for God's voice and read the Bible all the time. It's called faith! Thank you very much!

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

AActually, let me ask you a broader question: does Hell exist? Can you prove its existence? What if there's no Hell? Can you prove any of these questions?

YES!!!

[Beyondthesmegma]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Which is why he went to hell. He didn't follow Jewish law. Before Christ, only those who followed the whole law went to Heaven. The same is true now, but we can eat pork and mow the lawn on the weekends.

Under the New Covenant, anyone who believes in Jesus and is baptized, doesn't commit one one of 56 deadly sins listed in the New Testament without asking for forgiveness right before they die, is saved! Shout Glory!

How do you know Socrates is in Hell? How do you know Hitler is in Hell? How do you know Ghandi is in Hell? AActually, let me ask you a broader question: does Hell exist? Can you prove its existence? What if there's no Hell? Can you prove any of these questions?

BTW just because the Bible says it is the one true word of God, do you actually think it is the one true word of God. How do you know it is the one true word of God? Can you prove it is the one true word of God? What if it isn't the one true word of God?

It's a funny paradox, the chicken and the egg. And its the same with the truthfulness of the Bible.

[Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Nobody was aware of anything concerning jesus because he was unknown when Socrates lived. He believed in ond God, but not Jesus as God.

Which is why he went to hell. He didn't follow Jewish law. Before Christ, only those who followed the whole law went to Heaven. The same is true now, but we can eat pork and mow the lawn on the weekends.

Under the New Covenant, anyone who believes in Jesus and is baptized, doesn't commit one one of 56 deadly sins listed in the New Testament without asking for forgiveness right before they die, is saved! Shout Glory!

[Beyondthesmegma]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Are you unaware that Jesus and God are the same?

(John 10:30) "I and my Father are one."

As far as who came first:

(Revelation 1:8) "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

Nobody was aware of anything concerning jesus because he was unknown when Socrates lived. He believed in ond God, but not Jesus as God.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

So Christianity is a copycat religion? You don't say.

Some Christian churches, or religions have taken on pagan ideas , but the belief in Jesus and the bible is correct.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Nobody in the world knew of the existence of Jesus prior to Mary. Socrates lived before Mary. Use your mind next time.

Are you unaware that Jesus and God are the same?

(John 10:30) "I and my Father are one."

As far as who came first:

(Revelation 1:8) "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth

[Beyondthesmegma]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Socrates did not believe in God. Socrates claimed that the concept of goodness, instead of being determined by what the gods wanted, actually precedes the entire business of deities. (from Wiki, with which, on this occasion, I agree.)

Socrates could not have lived before Jesus, Jesus was here before Creation. If Socrates did not believe in Jesus, he was not rational because only by believing in Jesus can you attain Salvation. And no one can be considered rational who would reject Salvation™!

And don't come the old, "How could Socrates know of Jesus?" I'll tell you how, by reading the prophecies in Isaiah.

Nobody in the world knew of the existence of Jesus prior to Mary. Socrates lived before Mary. Use your mind next time.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Well said Pastor. You could even expand your first point by asking which religion, let alone church is right.

Christianity and Landover

But how do we know which of your above points is the right one and which are not? For me the answer is by using Rational Thinking. And after carefully using Rational Thought my conclusion is number 5 is the way to go!

Irrational! Of all the flavors of Chrsitianity, one has to be right. That one has to be the one that holds closest to God's Word.

Son, you have arrived in Landover.

Thats why god hates rational thought, if we all used it we would all be atheists and he would be out of a job!

It doesn't seem very rational to reject eternal life with Jesus.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Let's also consider the fact the Socrates was a rational thinker, but believed in one God. He was the first man in Greece to do so. He lived a good life, did not sin, believed in God yet was a rational thinker. You must also consider the fact that Socrates lived before Jesus. I understand why you are so dogmatic. All of us are or at least were. But rational thinking is when you use reason when you think. Galileo proved the Earth revolved around the Sun. Copernicus proved that the Earth was round. They discovered these things because they used their rational mind.

Socrates did not believe in God. Socrates claimed that the concept of goodness, instead of being determined by what the gods wanted, actually precedes the entire business of deities. (from Wiki, with which, on this occasion, I agree.)

Socrates could not have lived before Jesus, Jesus was here before Creation. If Socrates did not believe in Jesus, he was not rational because only by believing in Jesus can you attain Salvation. And no one can be considered rational who would reject Salvation™!

And don't come the old, "How could Socrates know of Jesus?" I'll tell you how, by reading the prophecies in Isaiah.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Is the account, at Luke 16:19-31, literal or merely an illustration of something else?

It is literal. What is there not to believe about it? Why should it be a parable? Are you suggesting that God cannot make His Message clear?

And NEVER use the Jerusalem Bible! It is errant, as your cretinous footnote shows.

So then,what is the origin of the teaching of hellfire?
In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world .*.*. is pictured as a place full of horrors, and*is*presided*over by gods and demons of great strength and*fierceness.”*

I think you have shot yourself in the foot here.

Is it not obvious to the True Christian that these Babylonian sandnigras KNEW there was a hell, but just got the story wrong because they refused to be Christian?

So if all these cultures say there is a Hell, who are you to tell millions and millions that they are wrong? Sounds like arrogance to me.

Perhaps you have a "special bible" that tells you exactly what God meant (and I've got $100 says it says exactly what you think is a good idea!)

[Beyondthesmegma]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

God hates Rational Thinking!

Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Today I would like to discuss a very real threat to any Faithful True Christian™. I speak, of course, about the demonic practice of “rational thinking.”

[...]
2 Peter 3:3-7:
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

I hope I have made clear to everyone why rational thinking is such a dangerous thing. Do not think, just obey! Otherwise, Hell will be waiting for you! Do everything the Bible says without question, that’s all God asks from you!

Yours in Christ,

True Disciple

Cranky Old Man told me God hates rational thinking. But let's actually think about it. By your reasoning, God hates rational thinking, but then again he gave it to us.
Here is an analogy: You give your son a book. You hate the book, but you gave it to him anyway even though he did not request it. So why would God give us the ability to think rationally if he doesn't like it.


Somebody once told me “God does not want you to use the rational mind.” One of the reasons that humans are so divided is not religion, but the fact that we are so dogmatic. We are so willing to hear what we want to hear. We would rather follow some belief that we like instead of believing something that is rationally possible. That’s why some humans stick to such irrational beliefs sometimes. It is because we don’t think. It is because we are so stupid. We find a construct and we never challenge or question it because we are weak. Those who defied. Socrates, Galileo, Copernicus. They were strong because they used their rational mind.

God. I do not know if he exists. Because empirical evidence or even logical proof that he exists, I cannot believe in his existence, but I cannot discredit him either because there is not enough evidence that he does not exist. But to passionately believe in either is a mistake.

Let's also consider the fact the Socrates was a rational thinker, but believed in one God. He was the first man in Greece to do so. He lived a good life, did not sin, believed in God yet was a rational thinker. You must also consider the fact that Socrates lived before Jesus. I understand why you are so dogmatic. All of us are or at least were. But rational thinking is when you use reason when you think. Galileo proved the Earth revolved around the Sun. Copernicus proved that the Earth was round. They discovered these things because they used their rational mind.

[Oliver Brendan Hayve]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

But the Bible does not contradict itself.

For a good part of this thread, you've provided ample evidence that it does.

So then,what is the origin of the teaching of hellfire?
In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world .*.*. is pictured as a place full of horrors, and*is*presided*over by gods and demons of great strength and*fierceness.”*(The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery*aspect*of*Christendom’s hell is found in*the*religion of*ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park,*N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A.*Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149,*151,*153,*161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century*B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol.*14, p.*68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in*Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca*(Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389.
But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

So Christianity is a copycat religion? You don't say.

[Katander]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Here are the possibilities:

1. One church has it right, and the rest are wrong.
2. God is too incompetent to get His point across.
3. God doesn't care what we believe.
4. The Bible isn't God's word to begin with.
5. There is no God.

If you believe any of 2-5, then in what sense are you a Christian?

Well said Pastor. You could even expand your first point by asking which religion, let alone church is right.

But how do we know which of your above points is the right one and which are not? For me the answer is by using Rational Thinking. And after carefully using Rational Thought my conclusion is number 5 is the way to go!

Thats why god hates rational thought, if we all used it we would all be atheists and he would be out of a job!