[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

If I had any of you for a parent and you decided to force me to do something that could cause more harm to me than good, all you would get despite demanding my full respect would be a one-way ticket to jail etc.

Don't be silly. It's not criminal if it falls under Religious Freedom.

[agnesaliencat]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

Don't be silly. It's not criminal if it falls under Religious Freedom.

Actually, yes it does, as forcing your child into things such as sex slavery is not just a crime (albeit one that can get you jailed for the rest of your life) but a complete and utter violation of the child's rights, as children have the right to not be raped, not be murdered, not be forced into marriage, etc.

[handmaiden]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

Actually, yes it does, as forcing your child into things such as sex slavery is not just a crime (albeit one that can get you jailed for the rest of your life) but a complete and utter violation of the child's rights, as children have the right to not be raped, not be murdered, not be forced into marriage, etc.

First, check with the Bible before issuing such statements regarding children's "rights". Then check your local state legislature.


If a parent signs off on it, children 14 years old (and younger in some situations) can get married. Since parents are responsible for their children's welfare, if they agree to the marriage than it must be in the best interests of the child, right? If it were not, then you would think that it wouldn't be legal, isn't that so? But it is, so how can a child's "rights" be violated by something that is perfectly legal? That just doesn't make sense.

[Basilissa]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

First, check with the Bible before issuing such statements regarding children's "rights". Then check your local state legislature.

If a parent signs off on it, children 14 years old (and younger in some situations) can get married. Since parents are responsible for their children's welfare, if they agree to the marriage than it must be in the best interests of the child, right? If it were not, then you would think that it wouldn't be legal, isn't that so? But it is, so how can a child's "rights" be violated by something that is perfectly legal? That just doesn't make sense.

Amen, Sister!!

...in 38 states, more than 167,000 children — almost all of them girls, some as young 12 — were married during that period, mostly to men 18 or older...

Many of the children married between 2000 and 2010 were wed to adults significantly older than they were, the data shows. At least 31 percent were married to a spouse age 21 or older. (The actual number is probably higher, as some states did not provide spousal ages.) Some children were married at an age, or with a spousal age difference, that constitutes statutory rape under their state’s laws. In Idaho, for example, someone 18 or older who has sex with a child under 16 can be charged with a felony and imprisoned for up to 25 years. Yet data from Idaho — which had the highest rate of child marriage of the states that provided data — shows that some 55 girls under 16 were married to men 18 or older between 2000 and 2010.

Many of the states that provided data included categories such as “14 and younger,” without specifying exactly how much younger some brides and grooms were. Thus, the 12-year-olds we found in Alaska, Louisiana and South Carolina’s data might not have been the youngest children wed in America between 2000 and 2010.

Source:

Praise !

[agnesaliencat]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

First, check with the Bible before issuing such statements regarding children's "rights". Then check your local state legislature.


If a parent signs off on it, children 14 years old (and younger in some situations) can get married. Since parents are responsible for their children's welfare, if they agree to the marriage than it must be in the best interests of the child, right? If it were not, then you would think that it wouldn't be legal, isn't that so? But it is, so how can a child's "rights" be violated by something that is perfectly legal? That just doesn't make sense.

Forcing a child into marriage regardless of age is never in the child's best interests, as it's basically saying "I brought you into this world, and now I get to choose who you love". Is that how children's rights work? Erm no it isn't. Not just that, but if you force a child to go through pregnancy and childbirth, you better be prepared for the possible complications (ie. be able to take them to hospital etc), because pregnancy and childbirth can both kill, and the chance of that happening is far higher if the pregnant parent is a child. That also makes you a hypocrite, as you condemn homosexuality because it can cause injuries (all forms of sex can, by the way), but yet you're okay with children being raped even though you know full well that the injuries that said child can sustain could actually result in them needing surgery or even dying due to massive internal bleeding, and that's not including childbirth which can cause deadly infections to occur aswell as labor-related complications.

And that's your God's will?

[Brother Gonzalez]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

Forcing a child into marriage regardless of age is never in the child's best interests

You like absolutes, don't you? NEVER is a strong word, and should not be used.

, as it's basically saying "I brought you into this world, and now I get to choose who you love".

Who said "love"?. Maybe we just want our grandchildren to be safe marrying our daughters to good Christian men. That is LOVE. The fact that your child loves or not their spouses is a modern concept, the same modernity that brought atomic bombs and AIDS. I prefer to stick to God.

Is that how children's rights work?

Children do not have any "rights". In fact, no one has them.


If you are theist, then your God gfave you your rights, they do not belong to you and they are limited to what your God wants.


If you are atheist, then you know "having" rights is BS. You have what you have earnt; you have to earn your rights. Tell a Saudi they have the right to free speech, or a French they have the right to defend their ground and not surrender for a change. Hint: they don't.

Not just that, but if you force a child to go through pregnancy and childbirth, you better be prepared for the possible complications (ie. be able to take them to hospital etc), because pregnancy and childbirth can both kill, and the chance of that happening is far higher if the pregnant parent is a child.

Define child. And please, find facts in history, like the age of pregnancy in the middle ages and how humanity survived your apocalyptic prophecy.

That also makes you a hypocrite, as you condemn homosexuality because it can cause injuries

We don't condem homosexuality, God does. Yes, He. We just pass the messenger, don't get mad at us.

(all forms of sex can, by the way), but yet you're okay with children being raped even though you know full well that the injuries that said child can sustain could actually result in them needing surgery or even dying due to massive internal bleeding, and that's not including childbirth which can cause deadly infections to occur aswell as labor-related complications.

What kind of sex are you watching in your atheist porn marathons? Sex is only for procreation with minimal contact. But again, define child, because a 14 yo is not the same as 6 yo.

And that's your God's will?

Something something mysterious ways. Yes.

[handmaiden]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

Forcing a child into marriage regardless of age is never in the child's best interests,

Excuse me, if this hypothetical child is neither yours or mine, who are either of us to decide what is in the child's best interests? Furthermore, you keep using the word, "force". Are you suggesting that these children are walked down the aisle in shackels? Such a bizarre picture you paint!

as it's basically saying "I brought you into this world, and now I get to choose who you love".

Now you are just being silly. "Love and marriage" only go together in that song about soups and sandwiches. Please read the Bible to see that marriage is a social, economic and spiritual concern. Love is something you feel for God.

Is that how children's rights work?

Again, children's "rights" aren't a prominent theme in the Bible.

Erm no it isn't. Not just that, but if you force a child to go through pregnancy and childbirth, you better be prepared for the possible complications (ie. be able to take them to hospital etc),

Most people are giving birth in hospitals these days, I'm not sure of your point.

. . . because pregnancy and childbirth can both kill,

If that is true, I'm surprised that the Democrats haven't passed a law banning it.

. . . and the chance of that happening is far higher if the pregnant parent is a child.

Now, I am really confused, if the pregnant parent is a parent, then why are you against parents' rights in favor of children's rights? Are you saying that the unborn child's rights are being violated? That would make you a pro-life supporter, which is certainly a step in the right direction.

That also makes you a hypocrite, as you condemn homosexuality because it can cause injuries . . .

Ahem--The BIBLE condemns homosexuality, I prefer not to think about it. And there is not a single word from God about potential injury being the reason that He despises it. I mean, hey, God is totally pro-stoning homosexuals, and I'm sure that hurts a lot worse than any kind of sex that they're having. (Or so I would assume, as I said, I really don't like to think about it that much.)

. . . (all forms of sex can[cause injury] by the way)

What sort of sex are you having?!

. . . but yet you're okay with children being raped even though you know full well that the injuries that said child can sustain could actually result in them needing surgery or even dying due to massive internal bleeding, and that's not including childbirth which can cause deadly infections to occur aswell as labor-related complications.

{Sigh} I am not okay with children being raped and bleeding internally or getting infections. I am saying that if you read the Bible, you will see that it supports the thesis statement of this thread. As for your basic thesis here about children 's rights and marriage, I must say that your perspective of marriage as a death trap of blood and infection doesn't make it sound like a safe prospect for anyone.

And that's your God's will?

I was always told that Jesus has a plan for my life. Assuming that He has a plan for other people's lives, then it is up to Him to decide when someone ovulates and if a pregnancy occurs. I have nothing to do with that.

So, if a 12 year old can't handle a pregnancy, then why did her ovaries pop out an egg? That is something to take up with God, if you have a mind to do so.


If you don't believe in God and instead insist that evolution is at work, perfecting every life form for its best shot at survival, then you need to explain why a body that can't survive a pregnancy would initiate the possibility for one in the first place.


The only responsibility that I and my comrades claim is that of telling people what is actually written in the Bible. So, please stop treating us as if we were the bad guys. We're basically just a bunch of people trying to understand a book.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

Forcing a child into marriage regardless of age is never in the child's best interests, as it's basically saying "I brought you into this world, and now I get to choose who you love". Is that how children's rights work? Erm no it isn't. Not just that, but if you force a child to go through pregnancy and childbirth, you better be prepared for the possible complications (ie. be able to take them to hospital etc), because pregnancy and childbirth can both kill, and the chance of that happening is far higher if the pregnant parent is a child. That also makes you a hypocrite, as you condemn homosexuality because it can cause injuries (all forms of sex can, by the way), but yet you're okay with children being raped even though you know full well that the injuries that said child can sustain could actually result in them needing surgery or even dying due to massive internal bleeding, and that's not including childbirth which can cause deadly infections to occur aswell as labor-related complications.

And that's your God's will?

Don't be silly. It's not "slavery" it's "marriage." A slave gets no perks like raising her own child and training them up to serve the LORD (PROVERBS 22:6).

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

"Love and marriage" only go together in that song about soups and sandwiches. Please read the Bible to see that marriage is a social, economic and spiritual concern. Love is something you feel for God.

Well said, Sister! Some time ago I did a Bible Study on the subject. I found it fascinating! I pray our confused friend here finds some peace from the Word of God. Then perhaps she'll pretty herself up, clean up her attitude, and find a husband. Then I suspect she won't be burdened with so much free time she bothers decent Christians who are just coming together to talk about Jesus.

[agnesaliencat]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

Excuse me, if this hypothetical child is neither yours or mine, who are either of us to decide what is in the child's best interests? Furthermore, you keep using the word, "force". Are you suggesting that these children are walked down the aisle in shackels? Such a bizarre picture you paint! Now you are just being silly. "Love and marriage" only go together in that song about soups and sandwiches. Please read the Bible to see that marriage is a social, economic and spiritual concern. Love is something you feel for God. Again, children's "rights" aren't a prominent theme in the Bible. Most people are giving birth in hospitals these days, I'm not sure of your point. If that is true, I'm surprised that the Democrats haven't passed a law banning it. Now, I am really confused, if the pregnant parent is a parent, then why are you against parents' rights in favor of children's rights? Are you saying that the unborn child's rights are being violated? That would make you a pro-life supporter, which is certainly a step in the right direction. Ahem--The BIBLE condemns homosexuality, I prefer not to think about it. And there is not a single word from God about potential injury being the reason that He despises it. I mean, hey, God is totally pro-stoning homosexuals, and I'm sure that hurts a lot worse than any kind of sex that they're having. (Or so I would assume, as I said, I really don't like to think about it that much.) What sort of sex are you having?! {Sigh} I am not okay with children being raped and bleeding internally or getting infections. I am saying that if you read the Bible, you will see that it supports the thesis statement of this thread. As for your basic thesis here about children 's rights and marriage, I must say that your perspective of marriage as a death trap of blood and infection doesn't make it sound like a safe prospect for anyone.

I was always told that Jesus has a plan for my life. Assuming that He has a plan for other people's lives, then it is up to Him to decide when someone ovulates and if a pregnancy occurs. I have nothing to do with that.

So, if a 12 year old can't handle a pregnancy, then why did her ovaries pop out an egg? That is something to take up with God, if you have a mind to do so.


If you don't believe in God and instead insist that evolution is at work, perfecting every life form for its best shot at survival, then you need to explain why a body that can't survive a pregnancy would initiate the possibility for one in the first place.


The only responsibility that I and my comrades claim is that of telling people what is actually written in the Bible. So, please stop treating us as if we were the bad guys. We're basically just a bunch of people trying to understand a book.

Well that's probably because of this wonderful thing called puberty which prepares our body for that possible experience which I'm not even going to consider going through what with my own health issues and the fact that I know things about my own birth that would make anybody think twice about even considering it. Also, I don't have a problem with you trying to understand what your own book says, although what I do have a problem with is the fact that there are people out there who would actually want a world full of violence and death and all the other evil that's condoned in the bible, as that's not what being a good Christian (or theist in general) should be about, and it doesn't take brains for people to understand that forcing a situation onto someone who hasn't given consent is an evil act regardless of where it comes from. That includes child marriage, as it's an act involving someone who is (in legal terms) unable to give consent, and when you do that kind of thing, you're actually breaking the law, and you could risk both jail and losing all parental rights not just to that child but to any other children you may have.

[Basilissa]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

Well that's probably because of this wonderful thing called puberty which prepares our body for that possible experience which I'm not even going to consider going through what with my own health issues

You are too sick to have babies?! Eww!

and the fact that I know things about my own birth that would make anybody think twice about even considering it.

If you want painless birth, cesarean section is an option, dear.

Also, I don't have a problem with you trying to understand what your own book says,

That is incredibly considerate of you, not to interfere with our understanding of things.

although what I do have a problem with is the fact that there are people out there who would actually want a world full of violence and death and all the other evil that's condoned in the bible,

Uh, hello? When violence is condoned in the Bible, that means it is OK in the eyes of God!

as that's not what being a good Christian (or theist in general) should be about,

Being a good Christian means following the Bible. All of it, including the parts of it that condone violence and death (and there are plenty of them).

and it doesn't take brains for people to understand that forcing a situation onto someone who hasn't given consent is an evil act regardless of where it comes from.

Welcome to the world, sweetie! Society forces us into situations all the time, such as forcing us to buy things we want rather than take them, be polite to others even when we don't feel like it, dress appropriately for a given social situation, etc, etc.

It's called civilized life.

That includes child marriage, as it's an act involving someone who is (in legal terms) unable to give consent, and when you do that kind of thing, you're actually breaking the law, and you could risk both jail and losing all parental rights not just to that child but to any other children you may have.

Great, go ahead and try to pass appropriate legislation in all 50 states.

In the meantime, child marriage will remain legal despite all of your whining.

[agnesaliencat]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

You are too sick to have babies?! Eww!

If you want painless birth, cesarean section is an option, dear.

That is incredibly considerate of you, not to interfere with our understanding of things.

Uh, hello? When violence is condoned in the Bible, that means it is OK in the eyes of God!

Being a good Christian means following the Bible. All of it, including the parts of it that condone violence and death (and there are plenty of them).

Welcome to the world, sweetie! Society forces us into situations all the time, such as forcing us to buy things we want rather than take them, be polite to others even when we don't feel like it, dress appropriately for a given social situation, etc, etc.

It's called civilized life.

Great, go ahead and try to pass appropriate legislation in all 50 states.

In the meantime, child marriage will remain legal despite all of your whining.

If I'm whining then why was Kentucky the latest US state to make it illegal? Also, why do I have to be sick in order to not have kids? Asking that last one because physical issues also include deformities, and anemia + scoliosis + dyspraxia + malformed/missing bones in my feet = I would rather have a hysterectomy.

[Thomas Taylor]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

physical issues also include deformities, and anemia + scoliosis + dyspraxia + malformed/missing bones in my feet = I would rather have a hysterectomy.

Oh dear Angus, you are quite the quasi aren't you. Well you what God has to say about that don't you:


Leviticus 21:18

“For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,”

In your current state God forbids you from approaching Him. But if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour then you will be healed. It says so, right here:


Acts 14:8

8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.


See there Angus all you need do is repent your sins and submit to the Conditional Love of Jesus and all your blemishes shall be removed.


I will pray for you my dear little mung.


YIC
TT

[Basilissa]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

If I'm whining then why was Kentucky the latest US state to make it illegal?

I see you have missed the link I so helpfully provided, so here it is again:

Also, why do I have to be sick in order to not have kids? Asking that last one because physical issues also include deformities, and anemia + scoliosis + dyspraxia + malformed/missing bones in my feet

Yeah, that laundry list definitely falls under the definition of being sick.

I would rather have a hysterectomy.

You do sound like a hysterical woman, sweetie.

[Dana723]

Re: Children are property that can be beat, sold, and traded! Like cattle!

Well that's probably because of this wonderful thing called puberty which prepares our body for that possible experience which I'm not even going to consider going through what with my own health issues and the fact that I know things about my own birth that would make anybody think twice about even considering it. Also, I don't have a problem with you trying to understand what your own book says, although what I do have a problem with is the fact that there are people out there who would actually want a world full of violence and death and all the other evil that's condoned in the bible, as that's not what being a good Christian (or theist in general) should be about, and it doesn't take brains for people to understand that forcing a situation onto someone who hasn't given consent is an evil act regardless of where it comes from. That includes child marriage, as it's an act involving someone who is (in legal terms) unable to give consent, and when you do that kind of thing, you're actually breaking the law, and you could risk both jail and losing all parental rights not just to that child but to any other children you may have.

Dear Agnes, I was married at 15. Being the rebellious teenager I was, I protested. But I was a child and I didn't know what was right for me. We've been married for a long time now and we've had five young, strong Christian soldiers to enlist in God's Army. Sometimes children do not know what is right for them. That is what parents are for!