[Didymus Much]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

...I'm not willing to read 100+ pages of posts.

Then you're lazy and impolite, to barge into an ongoing discussion without familiarizing yourself with what has already been covered.

...Of course he wasn't charged, he sits in the seat of the Beast. No politician, especially in Italy, would touch him...

...History says otherwise, but alright. (Ignoring the Beast comment for now; I'll address it later with your specific points)...

Name one Pope who's been charged (by a secular court, as if such a thing could exist in Italy) with a crime in the last, say, 300 years?

...the Italian and Spanish mobs are predominately Catholic. Whether or not they're good Catholics is another topic altogether.

So you think mafiosi could be good Catholics?! That's an indictment of your morals or the Church, or both.

...Yet all the pope and his CDF do is move priests around and try and cover their tracks. Guilt by association...

I prefer the term "aiding and abetting".

...Okay, well I'm done with you until you ... actually bother to read the thread...

+1.

[MisterM]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

I don't understand why you even bother to answer the papist. Where are one hard fact that is enough:

Catlicks don't follow The Bible

If you do want to go deeper in the reason, Catlick church has always been more political organization than church. Original (baptist like) faith was taken and twisted to state church of Rome for political reasons. In that point, sects that where not following the leader, where kicked out and basically called heretic. I would already call this era as Pre-Catlick, even officially it was called catlick somewhere near 1100 AD.

All the Mary worshiping and saint things where just taken from paganism to make Catlick faith more interesting for pagans. Church has always be more interested in getting people to join (forced in most of the cases) and pay taxes and other tithes than really saving people. Only reason the liturgy has been in latin (not even real latin but monk latin) so that people would not understand how they have been deceived.

If you look at Catlick church between 1000 AD and 2000 AD, it has been ruled by power hungry people, who had as much faith in God as Muslims - They didn't believe enough to God to let HIM do the punishing, they did it by themselves and almost always for political reasons. Also the church and especially the monasteries have been known refugee camps for sodomites as the Priesthood itself.

Our dear papist here talk about statistic that are made by church itself, all other point the fact that church is full of child molesters, sodomites and people believing in icons.

You can write as much as you like, twisting things, but these are the facts. You make me so sick that I don't want to ever read another of your posts and I will just ignore them.

If you are not ready to be True Christian and follow the bible, not some old sodomite in the Vatican get the fornicate out of here or at least stop posting your excrement of male neat.

All True Christians (baptists) here: I am sorry about my outburst and extreme language. It is just that when sodomite heathens deny hard undeniable facts and try to defend their fiendish ways, I'm filled with this Holy Fire and I want to kick some backsides of sinners.

With All Mutual Respect,
Miikkael

E: You made me so mad that I made terrible writing mistakes. I don't even have time to fix them now.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

I don't understand we you even bother to answer the papist. Where are one hard fact that is enough:

Catlicks don't follow The Bible

If you do want to go deeper in the reason, Catlick church has always been more political organization than church. Original (baptist like) faith was taken and twisted to state church of Rome for political reasons. In that point, sects that where not following the leader, where kicked out and basically called heretic. I would already call this era as Pre-Catlick, even officially it was called catlick somewhere near 1100 AD.

All the Mary worshiping and saint things where just taken from paganism to make Catlick faith more interesting for pagans. Church has always be more interested in getting people to join (forced in most of the cases) and pay taxes and other tithes than really saving people. Only reason the liturgy has been in latin (not even real latin but monk latin) so that people would not understand how they have been deceived.

If you look at Catlick church between 1000 AD and 2000 AD, it has been ruled by power hungry people, who had as much faith in God as Muslims - They didn't believe enough to God to let HIM do the punishing, they did it by themselves and almost always for political reasons. Also the church and especially the monasteries have been known refugee camps for sodomites as the Priesthood itself.

Our dear papist here talk about statistic that are made by church itself, all other point the fact that church is full of child molesters, sodomites and people believing in icons.

You can write as much as you like, twisting things, but these are the facts. You make me so sick that I don't want to ever read another of your posts and I will just ignore them.

If you are not ready to be True Christian and follow the bible, not some old sodomite in the Vatican get the fornicate out of here or at least stop posting your excrement of male neat.

All True Christians (baptists) here: I am sorry about my outburst and extreme language. It is just that when sodomite heathens deny hard undeniable facts and try to defend their fiendish ways, I'm filled with this Holy Fire and I want to kick some backsides of sinners.

With All Mutual Respect,
Miikkael

Amen Brother.

According to my family history, we were landowners until my family "donated" their lands to the catholics. I've always wondered how many swords were pointed at my families throats.

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Dominic, do you believe in the assumption of Mary? If the answer is yes or no I would be grateful to find out the reasoning behind your belief on this point.

YiC

Jack

[bobtheripper]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

The roman catholic "Church" is Not Christian. I want you all to understand this.

Practically all precepts of the papists contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares. Jesus wants you to quit kissing those rings, and instead become washed clean in His Blood!

For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the catholic cult, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the catholics religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The papist Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisioned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)

Before we get to specific problems with catholic doctrine, let's review how this bloodthirsty organization treated a man who simply wanted to get the Bible into the hands of the common people. In the late 1300s John Wycilf translated the scriptures from the Latin Vulgate. Some 40 odd years after his death, the catholic "religion" dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick. In the 1500's William Tyndale sought to translate the Bible into the language of the common people, English. He could not gain approval from the catholic pope so he worked as an outlaw on the run in Europe, translating the Bible. He was eventually captured, condemned and executed in 1536. It is because of people like these men, Tyndale and Wycliffe, that we have the scriptures today. If the papists had their way, we'd still be in ignorance about the Bible and enslaved to the pope. Time fails me here to tell of other marytrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish thugs.

I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.


* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.

1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).

Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.

Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.

3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.

1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.

Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.

Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name

John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.

Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).

One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.

NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.

Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).

* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.

I John
1:7b ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?

The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.


* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....

1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
* * * *
There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic cult. There are also many other doctrines of the catholic cult which could have been refuted (e.g. the sacraments, receiving the Holy Ghost, salvation through the catholic religion, penance, rosary, etc.).

* * * *
The catholic cult has a history of taking the money of poor widows in order to say masses for the dead (which do no good) and collecting the material possessions of nuns. In Italy, the heart of papism, there is an often used saying that goes, "Without money, they don't sing the mass." That is really pitiful on several fronts--1) mass is blasphemous and people who trust in it are hell-bound 2) there's no such thing as purgatory and 3) the gift of God is without price.

Roman mary worship today is probably the wealthiest government/tax-free corporation in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has healthy real estate interests. The bottom line is, if you want to get right with God, you have to go through His Son, Jesus Christ, not the Whore of Babylon (aka the catholic "church").

Praise Jesus!

um, i read another thread saying that the crusades were a good thing (and so is violence, war, and torture of innocents who don't share your views)

also, i'm assuming that most people on this forum are a form of protestantism. and protestantism stemmed from the Catholic Church several hundred years ago. they kept many of the same ideas, they worship god and jesus, they read the bible and the gospel.

i don't necessarily like the Catholic Church (especially it's past), but to say that their not christians is a flat out lie. someone who is christian worships god and jesus christ. catholics and protestants worship both (that's why catholicism is listed as a form of christianity)

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

um, i read another thread saying that the crusades were a good thing (and so is violence, war, and torture of innocents who don't share your views)

Please rewrite that in a form that makes sense. Killing Muslims good. Killing muslims in the name of the Pope and to make the Caltholic church rich, bad.

also, i'm assuming that most people on this forum are a form of protestantism. and protestantism stemmed from the Catholic Church several hundred years ago. they kept many of the same ideas, they worship god and jesus, they read the bible and the gospel.

Please look at the top of the forum, it's there on every page.

LANDOVER BAPTIST CHURCH
The Catholics claim they worship God and Jesus, then they pray to JunoMary and all of the household demi-gods saints. They even dig up their own leaders after they've been dead so that they can worship a rotting corpse. Could you please point out where in the Bible God says any of this idolatry is okay.

i don't necessarily like the Catholic Church (especially it's past), but to say that their not christians is a flat out lie. someone who is christian worships god and jesus christ. catholics and protestants worship both (that's why catholicism is listed as a form of christianity)

They're not Christians. In fact out of all the false churches who claim to be "christian" they are the farthest away. But once again, you're too lazy to read the thread and expect us to spoon feed you.

[bobtheripper]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Please rewrite that in a form that makes sense. Killing Muslims good. Killing muslims in the name of the Pope and to make the Caltholic church rich, bad.

Please look at the top of the forum, it's there on every page.

LANDOVER BAPTIST CHURCH
The Catholics claim they worship God and Jesus, then they pray to JunoMary and all of the household demi-gods saints. They even dig up their own leaders after they've been dead so that they can worship a rotting corpse. Could you please point out where in the Bible God says any of this idolatry is okay.


They're not Christians. In fact out of all the false churches who claim to be "christian" they are the farthest away. But once again, you're too lazy to read the thread and expect us to spoon feed you.

hmm, you seem like a very pleasant, kind person.

this is why i don't like religion. because most of the worlds political and violent confrontations/issues come from different religious views. if nobody (or very few people) believed/supported religion, we wouldn't have as many wars. The Catholic Church WAS the first christian church. everything else came after it

i agree with the 2nd part of your first statement but completely frown upon the 1st. it's called being tolerant of people who are different from you. some of us on earth have the brain capacity to be able to do so

[Born Again Bob]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Dear Friend,

because most of the worlds political and violent confrontations/issues come from different religious views.

Quick quiz: Please identify the religious conflict which caused each of the following American wars:

Revolutionary War?
War of 1812?
Civil War?
WWI?
WWII?
Korean War?
War in Vietnam?
War in Iraq?

Yours in Him,
BAB

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

hmm, you seem like a very pleasant, kind person.

this is why i don't like religion. because most of the worlds political and violent confrontations/issues come from different religious views. if nobody (or very few people) believed/supported religion, we wouldn't have as many wars.

So this is what they teach in public schools these days, bad grammar, spelling and the Christians are to blame for everything.

I want to see the answers to BAB's question.

The Catholic Church WAS the first christian church. everything else came after it

So Jesus died in approximately 33AD and Catholicism didn't become an official religion until 380 (although a good argument could be made that it didn't really exist until 870) so there was nothing in between? What about Paul and the Apostles? What about the churches that Paul wrote to long before the Catholics were around?

i agree with the 2nd part of your first statement but completely frown upon the 1st. it's called being tolerant of people who are different from you. some of us on earth have the brain capacity to be able to do so

Where does God tell us to be tollerant of sinners? Or is that another lie the priests tell you. It's very wrong what they did to you, but you need to tolerate and forgive them because they went to confession.

[bobtheripper]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Dear Friend,



Quick quiz: Please identify the religious conflict which caused each of the following American wars:

Revolutionary War?
War of 1812?
Civil War?
WWI?
WWII?
Korean War?
War in Vietnam?
War in Iraq?

Yours in Him,
BAB

i said MOST of the world's confrontations, not all. Luckily the USA hasn't fought that many wars over religion

anyways most religious wars happened centuries ago when church and state were more entertwined

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

i said MOST of the world's confrontations, not all. Luckily the USA hasn't fought that many wars over religion

anyways most religious wars happened centuries ago when church and state were more entertwined

Under Catholic rule?

So you're blaming us for what the Catholics did? Is that why you're fighting so hard to prove we're nothing more than displaced papists?

[CalebtheCoward]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Catholics are Christians!

[Born Again Bob]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Catholics are Christians!

Not so -- the Catechism conflicts with the Bible.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Catholics are Christians!

Go back and read this thread from the first post. We have answered each and every argument put forth.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Why Roman Catholic Papists Are NOT Christians

Catholics are Christians!

Exodus:20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
You show me a catholic church without a graven image.

1st Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Any married bishops in the Catholic Church?