Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

[Witch of Endor]

Hello again, Christians. I have another question, if you might indulge me.

I see that you all believe that following the KJV 1611 version of the Bible is the ONLY path to salvation and Heaven. This leads me to wonder if everybody who died prior to 1611 was damned to eternal suffering.

If so, it surely makes me feel sorry for the poor saps who died in 1610!

Or, instead, did your God have sort of a "close enough" policy before then? As in, whatever religious group was closest to what the KJV 1611 would be at the time managed to get saved.

Many thanks for answering my many questions.

Blessed be, my KJV following friends

Kassandra, Witch of Endor

[Virginia Day Templeton]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

From what I understand, the KJV came about because other Bible versions had become corrupted over the years. Satanic influence had caused them to slowly deviate from the Word that God originally dictated. This in turn was leading more and more people to Hell.

As long as they followed exactly the principles that were later laid out in the KJV, there's no reason why any True Christians should have gone to Hell. The problem was that people had no way of knowing if they were True Christians. Some got lucky; some didn't. That's the way the wafer crumbles.

Fewer people had heard of Jesus at the time than have today — but more of those were likely to accept Him, since atheism hadn't become a fad yet. Factor in the Bible issue and it's probably true that the average person today has a better chance of being Saved than one who died before 1611. Glory! But that doesn't mean that all of them were damned. Just the vast overwhelming majority... and so it remains.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

Well I'm sure the first apostles got in, then it would have increased a bit while they were spreading the news. Dropped off almost completely once the Roman Pagans got their nails dug into it, and then steadily rose after 1611, until around 1970 when the bastardized versions started showing up wholesale and everyone started believing whatever they wanted to.

But that's just a theory.

[Oakland "Reb" Griner]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

The Bible notes the 2 thieves crucified with Jesus made it to heaven.

[DamianC]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

Hello Kassandra,

By asking these many question. Are you looking to be saved?
Are you willing to turn from believing in elves and hobbits to your One True Creator?

If you are - saved -, you might want to switch to a name that carries less promiscuous connotations.

Blessed be, my polytheist and pagan internet fellow!

[Witch of Endor]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

Hello Kassandra,

By asking these many question. Are you looking to be saved?
Are you willing to turn from believing in elves and hobbits to your One True Creator?

If you are - saved -, you might want to switch to a name that carries less promiscuous connotations.

Blessed be, my polytheist and pagan internet fellow!

What's this? A Christian using an Authentic Wiccan (notice the lack of a trademark) phrase like "blessed be"? Keep talking like that friend, and pretty soon you'll be getting the invites to Freehold to join in their Fall "festivities".

I am just curious about your religion and your God and am interested in learning more. This in no way means I desire to be Saved©.Now, what I don't understand is why your God decided to make the edits in 1611. Were the earlier versions alright until then? Is that when the Satanic influence in them appeared?

Blessed be, my curiously Wiccan-sounding friend in Christ

Kassandra, Witch of Endor

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

Blessed be, my polytheist and pagan internet fellow!

If you'd like to commune with the devil, take it elsewhere.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

The Bible notes the 2 thieves crucified with Jesus made it to heaven.

Indeed, and let us not forget that the patriarch Abraham also made it up to Heaven. In the book of Luke, Jesus relates how there was a beggar named Lazarus and an evil rich man who would not feed him. The rich man ends up going to Hell, but Lazarus goes to Heaven, where Abraham is.

Luke 16:22-28
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

[Phebe Carlyle]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

Indeed, and let us not forget that the patriarch Abraham also made it up to Heaven. In the book of Luke, Jesus relates how there was a beggar named Lazarus and an evil rich man who would not feed him. The rich man ends up going to Hell, but Lazarus goes to Heaven, where Abraham is.

Luke 16:22-28
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Elijah went up too!

2 Kings 2:11

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven

YIC

Mrs Phebe Dewitt.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

Rev Jim, I beg to differ: Before The resurrection it is alleged that nobody went to heaven. Jesus Himself says as much.

Joh:3:12: If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh:3:13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
[…]
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

As I understand it, the first entirely mortal person in heaven was one of the thieves crucified with Christ.

Lu:23:42: And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Lu:23:43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

After the Resurrection, those who had a faith in Jesus consistent with His Teachings entered heaven.

[DamianC]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

What's this? A Christian using an Authentic Wiccan (notice the lack of a trademark) phrase like "blessed be"?

Why? No. Maybe I should have used the symbol.

You can't claim something as "blessed be" as yours.

Genesis 14:19
And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth

Genesis 14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 9:26
And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Anyway, just to be clear with God, I will go punish myself in the basement.

[Witch of Endor]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

Oh my, I never intended to imply it was only a Wiccan saying (notice how I said it wasn't trademarked), but I have it on good authority Freehold's TermiWix is running a bit short of witches this year, they'll probably settle for anyone that uses witch slang.

Now, back to the topic at hand. Since there isn't quite a consensus on Abraham, Elijah and Lazarus, we will count them as ascending to Heaven just for argument's sake. I'll also assume that all the apostles mentioned in the New Testament (excluding Judas) were saved. This gives us, in no particular order:

Abraham, Elijah, Lazarus, the two thieves, Peter, Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James, Thaddeus, Nathanael, Paul, Barnabus, Andronicus, Junia, Silas, Timothy, and Apollos.

Of course, not being a True Christian™, I admit I may have missed one. Please let me know if I did.

Now, this gives us a grand total of 23 Heaven residents pre-1611, when your Lord issued his KJV Bible to the masses.

Blessed be, my Christian friends

Kassandra, Witch of Endor

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

Rev Jim, I beg to differ: Before The resurrection it is alleged that nobody went to heaven. Jesus Himself says as much.

Joh:3:12: If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh:3:13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
[…]
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

As I understand it, the first entirely mortal person in heaven was one of the thieves crucified with Christ.

Lu:23:42: And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Lu:23:43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

After the Resurrection, those who had a faith in Jesus consistent with His Teachings entered heaven.

Brother, I believe you overlook Revelation.

Revelation 20

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If the saints who will reign with Jesus for a thousand years are "the first resurrection", that means they must surely be dead until that time. These are people who live through the time of the Beast -- the Tribulation. After all, they are noted as not having worshiped the Beast or taken his mark; they'd not have had a choice in the matter if they'd died beforehand.

So what happened to that thief? He must be awfully lonely in Heaven, just him, and God, and Jesus, and Holy Ghost, and Elijah hanging out. What if they don't have anything in common? Has the unending praising and worshiping begun? If so, I can't imagine two humans grovelling worshiping is much of an event for God.

Then comes the second resurrection, the resurrection unto salvation or damnation:

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is how God proves His love for all of His creation, Brother! Rather than letting sinners remain dead and unknowing, God will, in His infinite mercy, resurrect them ALL, then tell them how horrible and vile they are, and cast them into eternal torture! And the few who make the cut (like we True Christians(tm) get to watch our friends and loved ones be tossed into the flames like so much dung. Glory!

Oh my, I never intended to imply it was only a Wiccan saying (notice how I said it wasn't trademarked), but I have it on good authority Freehold's TermiWix is running a bit short of witches this year, they'll probably settle for anyone that uses witch slang.

Rumors that TermiWix has over-released witches this year are wholly inaccurate. There are more than adequate witches in stock for the rest of the month.

TermiWix will be revising its release schedule to only one coven (instead of two, which constitutes a "horde") each Friday until Halloween. This is so they can provide a Grand Halloween Hunt Weekend, running from sundown on Friday, October 29 through 11:59 pm on Sunday, October 31.

[Powwow]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

my thought on this is that no text is entirely correct, everything man touches/writes is tainted by sin, as a man has transcribed/printed/handed out copies of the Bible it must have a taint on it. From this alone we should be aware that their is (however minute) some sin manifest on the Bible itself.

Therefore in my thoughts would it not be best to search for an answer from all texts deemed religious worldwide? from the Bible to the Koran, Hindu and Buddhist transcripts, all these texts with their combined history and knowledge would be a better way of finding heaven, than a singular thought.

Before you judge this harshly though, i will leave with this though:

why would a god deem one religion to be correct and yet place a person into a life whereby they are brought up learning another religion? would this mean he is purposely not allowing certain groups into his kingdom? No. all texts have truth within them.

[Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.]

Re: Did Everyone Who Died Before 1611 Go To Hell?

Dear Powwow,

my thought on this is that no text is entirely correct, everything man touches/writes is tainted by sin, as a man has transcribed/printed/handed out copies of the Bible it must have a taint on it. From this alone we should be aware that their is (however minute) some sin manifest on the Bible itself.

While this is true for many versions of the Holy Bible, don't you think there has to be one version that is correct? Don't you think God would have given us clear guidelines on His wishes? This correct version is the 1611 King James edition of the Holy Bible. Although, often the 1769 version is quoted as it is easier to read. One has to be careful though as there are mistakes in for example 1st Corinthians 12:28  and Joshua 3:11 making clear only the 1611 version is to be trusted.

Therefore in my thoughts would it not be best to search for an answer from all texts deemed religious worldwide?

No, there is no way to avoid this issue. You either choose the correct Bible and live by it, or you go to Hell. God does not want us to create or follow false scripture. "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:18-19)

why would a god deem one religion to be correct and yet place a person into a life whereby they are brought up learning another religion? would this mean he is purposely not allowing certain groups into his kingdom?

You should never blame others. Everyone is responsible for figuring out the one and only truth and then living by it. Praise The LORD that he brought you to this forum making choosing the right path so much easier for you. Not many people are blessed by this gift.

Yours in Christ,

Pastor J.C. Manning, M.D., Ph.D.