[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Ok let me rephrase those two points:

Lions would rather avoid a confrontation with humans. Simply because of the lack of interest. A lion will not walk up to you and kill you unless it is wounded or cornered. This is because lions do not see huamns as prey. (with some exceptions ofcourse)

We can stand up to them with our current equipment. (guns) Without it, we would be torn apart.
That equipment did not exist in the time of the dinosaurs.

Ahem, lions don't see us as prey because we have had stones and spears, later bows and arrows and then guns, all of which beat lions, thus lions have learned not to touch us (except in extremis.) Antelopes on the other hand failed to invent any of these things and are delicious but unlikely to be given the job by God of ruling the earth.

This is all academic by the way, because dinosaurs were afraid of man: Ge:9:2: And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

[Nobar King]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Close infact i am 13. Oh and as for American grammer there is one problem with that .... im not American.

Do I get an award or something?

[F. Nietzsche]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Praise the Lord! He has shown me how to prove scientifically that the sun is no more than 500 miles overhead.

Here is the proof:

To start off with, the sun is hot enough to glow yellow, so we can use Wein's Displacement Law to determine the temperature.

Wein's Displacement Law:
Peak Wavelength in meters = displacement constant / temperature in Kelvin

Yellow light has a wavelength between 570nm and 580nm, so we'll solve for 575nm. Since we are working with nanometers rather than meters, we'll simplify the math by multiplying the displacement constant by 10^9.

575 = 2897768.5/T
575 * T = 2897768.5
T = 2897768.5/575
T = 5039.6° K (8611.6° F)

So the sun is about 5039.6° Kelvin.

Now, the average temperature of the earth is 59° F, or about 288° K. The mean temperature gradient of the troposphere is 6° K/km, so let's solve for the distance.

d = (5039.6 - 288)/6
d = 791.9 km (491.1 miles)

There you have it. The sun is roughly 491.1 miles overhead. Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm), this figure could be off by as much as 5 miles. However, I don't have a spectrometer handy, and I'm willing to live with an uncertainty of ±5 miles. It's not like I'm planning to visit anytime soon -- my shoes would melt .

The LORD is so good to me. Praise the sweet name of Jesus.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

The only problem to what you just posted is that Wein's Displacement law is not used for calculating distance. It's just a relationship between a black body's temperature and it's peak emitted wavelength. Your distance calculation is in fact calculating for something already defined as the constant of proportionality- b, equal to 2.897768×10−3 m·K.

[999Dev]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

The only problem to what you just posted is that Wein's Displacement law is not used for calculating distance. It's just a relationship between a black body's temperature and it's peak emitted wavelength. Your distance calculation is in fact calculating for something already defined as the constant of proportionality- b, equal to 2.897768×10−3 m·K.

The only problem?

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

The only problem to what you just posted is that Wein's Displacement law is not used for calculating distance.

Of course it isn't used for calculating distance. That doesn't make any sense at all.

It's just a relationship between a black body's temperature and it's peak emitted wavelength.

Right, and that's exactly how I used it. I used Wein's Displacement law to calculate the temperature of the sun based on its peak wavelength. Then I used the mean temperature gradient of the troposphere to calculate the distance.

Go back and read that post again. I don't think you read the whole thing.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[F. Nietzsche]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Of course it isn't used for calculating distance. That doesn't make any sense at all.


Right, and that's exactly how I used it. I used Wein's Displacement law to calculate the temperature of the sun based on its peak wavelength. Then I used the mean temperature gradient of the troposphere to calculate the distance.

Go back and read that post again. I don't think you read the whole thing.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

You are right.

"d = (5039.6 - 288)/6"

This is what I misread. I thought you were deriving Wein's Displacement law to solve for b. which is a constant.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what formula you're using here, given that the temperature gradient on Earth is not constant though atmospheric layers, nor is the sun heating the Earth even a convection system. It's closer to radiation which is in turn captured by the atmosphere. Space is a near vaccum and thus it would be impossible to create a convection current like an oven.

Equally, it's not carbon based fuel as has been suggested. The sun is producing visible light only as a small portion of its entire spectrum of radiation. The sun emits energy in a wide variety of wavelengths, from radio to X rays as a function of the fusion of hydrogen into helium occurring in the core. Carbon based fuel cannot produce that magnitude of energy, nor anything outside the visible light spectrum.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

You are right.



This is what I misread. I thought you were deriving Wein's Displacement law to solve for b. which is a constant.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what formula you're using here, given that the temperature gradient on Earth is not constant though atmospheric layers, nor is the sun heating the Earth even a convection system. It's closer to radiation which is in turn captured by the atmosphere. Space is a near vaccum and thus it would be impossible to create a convection current like an oven.

Equally, it's not carbon based fuel as has been suggested. The sun is producing visible light only as a small portion of its entire spectrum of radiation. The sun emits energy in a wide variety of wavelengths, from radio to X rays as a function of the fusion of hydrogen into helium occurring in the core. Carbon based fuel cannot produce that magnitude of energy, nor anything outside the visible light spectrum.

Says you.

[F. Nietzsche]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Says you.

What do you mean? The last point of the energy based output of the sun is indisputable. Natural UV radiation is not produced by combustion of carbon based sources such as coal or oil, even in the high heat environment of a blast furnace. On the other hand, it's produced abundantly by the Sun, and is in fact the source of sunburn.

The sun acually isn't even burning. The yellow flammable look to stellar observations are just byproducts of visible light being produced though the energy caused by the proton-proton cycle, which, if you want, I'll outline for you.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

What do you mean? The last point of the energy based output of the sun is indisputable. Natural UV radiation is not produced by combustion of carbon based sources such as coal or oil, even in the high heat environment of a blast furnace. On the other hand, it's produced abundantly by the Sun, and is in fact the source of sunburn.

The sun acually isn't even burning. The yellow flammable look to stellar observations are just byproducts of visible light being produced though the energy caused by the proton-proton cycle, which, if you want, I'll outline for you.

Brother Bathfire is just pointing out that like we have come to expect with atheists you keep on changing the ground rules in these discussions. Now it is "non-carbon" based energy and U-V lights. U-V, you mean like black lights? Come on friend, We are discussing the sun, not some San Fransisco head shop. Let's stick to science please.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Thank you Bobby Joe for your moral support. These airy-fairy, head-in-the-clouds, Johnny-come-Lately type of Lollygaggers with their ten dollar words think they can come along here and challenge God’s Word and a Pastor’s deep understanding every time they have a new mental delusion.

If I had a $Million for each time a scientific theory went out the window, I’d be a rich man.

[F. Nietzsche]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Brother Bathfire is just pointing out that like we have come to expect with atheists you keep on changing the ground rules in these discussions. Now it is "non-carbon" based energy and U-V lights. U-V, you mean like black lights? Come on friend, We are discussing the sun, not some San Fransisco head shop. Let's stick to science please.

This has nothing to do with growth of marijuana or industrial carbon dioxide emissions. It's a discussion of the physics related to the energy output of the sun. UV is an abbreviation for ultraviolet light, which describes a category of electromagnetic waves which have a shorter wavelength than violet (the shortest wavelength color in the visible light spectrum).

What I was suggesting was not anything unscientific or politically motivated, but rather pointing out that the sun produces electromagnetic energy in forms not consistent with a typical reaction associated with the combustion of carbon-based material such as coal, which produces only thermal energy and visible light. The Sun, on the other hand, produces waves along the entire electromagnetic spectrum in varying amounts, and also emits neutrinos, which are consistent with the idea of the sun being a large, gravity driven fusion reactor of sorts rather than a combusting ball of coal or carbon as was suggested.

If the Sun were coal fired, spectroscopy would indicate it to be consistent with carbon-based combustion, however, it actually indicates the sun is composed of lighter elements like helium and hydrogen, consistent with the proton-proton cycle of stellar fusion.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Similar points to the ones you raised have already been addressed in this thread. I swapped the order the two points you made to match the chronological order in which they were previously raised.

Equally, it's not carbon based fuel as has been suggested. The sun is producing visible light only as a small portion of its entire spectrum of radiation. The sun emits energy in a wide variety of wavelengths, from radio to X rays as a function of the fusion of hydrogen into helium occurring in the core.

You might have missed the part of this thread where we got a spectrometer up and running. Here is the link to that post.

Carbon based fuel cannot produce that magnitude of energy, nor anything outside the visible light spectrum.

It won't get that hot in your backyard barbecue, or even in a coal powered power plant, but keep in mind that we are talking about a ball of coal 11 1/2 miles across. Have you ever pointed a spectrometer at a 11 1/2 mile diameter coal fire, or do you have a link to a peer-reviewed study that has done so?

On the other hand, I'm not sure what formula you're using here, given that the temperature gradient on Earth is not constant though atmospheric layers, nor is the sun heating the Earth even a convection system. It's closer to radiation which is in turn captured by the atmosphere. Space is a near vaccum and thus it would be impossible to create a convection current like an oven.

Another fellow who went by the name of Pyrrhus raised a similar objection in this post.

I didn't have an answer for him immediately, but I knew someone who had a pyranometer we could borrow. We used that to measure solar radiation intensity from multiple altitudes so that we could use the inverse squares law to find the distance to the sun. The results of that are in this post.

[Star Finder]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

energy caused by the proton-proton cycle,

hmmmph.. that sounds very homosexual. proton on proton action.

are you a bone smoker?

I understand that many atheist false scientists are sexual deviants. Its just sad that you have to flaunt your preverted lifestyle choice here in this forum.

[eliot mayfield]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Look, you can feel the heat from the sun. Therefor it can't be millions of miles away! Build a real big bonfire on a cold day and just go half a mile away. Feel anything? No!
The sun can't be MILLIONS of miles away!

[Thaddaeus]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

If the Sun is 500miles above the surface and has a diameter of 10miles then it would have an angular diameter of about ~0.57deg from the surface when directly overhead.

If the angular diameter is measured simultaneously 2000miles away on the surface then it should appear to have an angular diameter of ~0.14deg (assuming flat Earth) or ~0.13deg (assuming spherical Earth of radius ~3959miles). We should notice such a decrease in angular diameter of the great coal furnace in the sky as midday progresses into evening.