[ilovelostcauses]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

I find this offensive. You're apologizing for what is written in the Holy Bible, and that means you're embarrassed of what Jesus said. If you can link to a post in which a True Christian™ has misquoted the Holy Bible, and particularly Jesus, I'll eat my hat.

How am I apologizing for what the Bible says? If you would, please explain.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

First and foremost, I am a born-again, Bible believing Christian and I have been for practically all my life. I would never leave my belief system for anything and I confidently believe it to be absolute truth. That being said, let me commence.

I will address some discouraging things that I have observed while looking through this thread.

1. The overwhelming sense of pride amongst fellow "Christians."

Christians, I want to ask you, what are you trying to accomplish here? Ask yourselves, did Jesus treat those who were far away from God with the same contempt that many of you are in this thread? And this is only one thread. I am afraid to look at any more.
If you truly believe in the word of God, you should believe what it says:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

For many of you, this verse is very common and practically engraved in your very spirit, as it should be. But have you ever considered the verse that comes right after?

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17

If this does not carry just as much weight for you, I am challenging you to reconsider what you are really preaching here. If you are trying to be more like Jesus, you are not accomplishing that goal. Be wary of your contempt and repent.

Dear Friend, what a long post. Still you remain unknown to us without proper Introduction. However. I assess a few major points of this novellette.
1. John 3:16-17. What a nice pericope! Wonderful, heart-warming and full of promise - to those WHO BELIEVE. It would not take much effor to read the next verse!

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Yes, it carries A LOT OF WEIGHT. Unbelieving = being condemned. CONDITIONAL salvation, CONDITIONAL love once you take the effort and read the whole Bible. Salvation is a struggle, you have to work for it!

2. You make Gerard Way, and the band he was in, out to be the worst sinners on the planet.
Gerard Way is nothing but one man. And My Chemical Romance made music, not eternities.
They are broken men at that. But they are loved by God just as much as all of you. After all, we all sin. That is why we need him every day. We are no better than any of those who have not come to God.
"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." -Luke 19:10
Weren't we all once lost, searching for the hope that now should be within us?
If God hated this man, and all those who are lost for that matter, he surely would not try to save them. However, he did and continues to every day.

Again, it would benefit if you studied the Bible. True Saved Christians™ DO NOT SIN! It is clearly stated:

Psalm 119:1-3 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.

And to any non-Christians who are still reading this: This is not how Jesus has taught Christians to act. I thoroughly apologize for any offensive comment you received here. Research what the Bible truly says, and don't be mislead by Christians. You will be surprised what you find. For instance, God does not send people to hell. People choose that route themselves. But there are many more misconceptions too that you will only catch by educating yourselves on what it says and delving deep enough to understand what it all means. Please do your research. And always remain skeptical.

[my emphasis]. Ok, I did what you suggested and researched what the Bible truly says:

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Here you see it again. Conditional love. Love for those who embrace the whole of God, the Bible in its totality, Jesus in all His aspects. Fear, obey, repent. Thereafter comes the love.

I am praying for you. Please, please read the WHOLE BIBLE. You may have a chance for Salvation. I am deeply concerned for the state of your spirituality.

As for this band My Chemical Romance (reference to psychedelic drugs?), I had never ever actually listened to any of their recordings. A few days ago I did that whilst browsing the TV-channel "Your Tube" (that has also some nice musical interludes, but more about that below). After only a couple of minutes I felt a strong urge to self-mutilation and - I have to admit it - suicide. My PERSONAL TESTIMONY confirms that the question in the opening post must be answered: YES. They should!

I had to calm my nerves with some gentle and uplifting tunes. For those True Christians™ who make the same mistake and seek after some examples of this vocal group, I have here this nice piece of music that prevented me from looking after sharp cutlery, rope, etc.

Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[ilovelostcauses]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

Dear Friend, what a long post. Still you remain unknown to us without proper Introduction. However. I assess a few major points of this novellette.
1. John 3:16-17. What a nice pericope! Wonderful, heart-warming and full of promise - to those WHO BELIEVE. It would not take much effor to read the next verse!

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Yes, it carries A LOT OF WEIGHT. Unbelieving = being condemned. CONDITIONAL salvation, CONDITIONAL love once you take the effort and read the whole Buble. Salvation is a struggle, you have to work for it!

Again, it would benefit if you studied the Bible. True Saved Christians™ DO NOT SIN! It is clearly stated:

Psalm 119:1-3 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.


[my emphasis]. Ok, I did what you suggested and researched what the Bible truly says:

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Here you see it again. Conditional love. Love for those who embrace the whole of God, the Bible in its totality, Jesus in all His aspects. Fear, obey, repent. Thereafter comes the love.

I am praying for you. Please, please read the WHOLE BIBLE. You may have a chance for Salvation. I am deeply concerned for the state of your spirituality.

As for this band My Chemical Romance (reference to psychedelic drugs?), I had never ever actually listened to any of their recordings. A few days ago I did that whilst browsing the TV-channel "Your Tube" (that has also some nice musical interludes, but more about that below). After only a couple of minutes I felt a strong urge to self-mutilation and - I have to admit it - suicide. My PERSONAL TESTIMONY confirms that the question in the opening post must be answered: YES. They should!

I had to calm my nerves with some gentle and uplifting tunes. For those True Christians™ who make the same mistake and seek after some examples of this vocal group, I have here this nice piece of music that prevented me from looking after sharp cutlery, rope, etc.

Yours in Christ,

Elmer

I have read the whole Bible. I am not speaking as one who is uneducated in the word of God, but as one who believes in it, studies it thoroughly, and knows what it says.

You claim,"True Saved Christians DO NOT SIN." So let me ask you, what is Salvation? And How come "True Saved Christians" do not sin?

Was Paul, the writer of Romans, a True Saved Christian when he wrote this passage?
"14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." -Romans 7:14-25

Thank you for your prayers. I am also praying for you.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

I have read the whole Bible. I am not speaking as one who is uneducated in the word of God, but as one who believes in it, studies it thoroughly, and knows what it says.

You claim,"True Saved Christians DO NOT SIN." So let me ask you, what is Salvation? And How come "True Saved Christians" do not sin?

Was Paul, the writer of Romans, a True Saved Christian when he wrote this passage?
"14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." -Romans 7:14-25

Thank you for your prayers. I am also praying for you.

My Dear,

Please, try to understand why I find it hard to be convinced that you have read the whole Bible with all your heart and proper concentration. You quoted Romans 7, most of the Chapter. The Epistle does not end there. On the contrary, it continues and the next Chapter is number 8. What a magnificent opening for that Chapter:

Romans 8:1-2
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Again, here, context, please. Paul builds up the tension, and at the beginning of Chapter 8 the tension is released. In Sweet Jesus and His temporary death we are freed from sin if we fill the conditional requirements! How wonderful, how terrific! Also here in the Epistle, we walk on the literary (and literal) path of fear and obeying into Salvation in Jesus if we fill the conditional requirements.

Some other verses you might find useful:

2nd Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The whole Bible. The whole God. All aspects of Jesus.


Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The aspects we intuitively like and consider "nice" and the aspects that make us tremble in fear and awe. The Bible contains all this and also the instruction on how to avoid the quite unpleasant consequences of neglecting pivotal parts of it.

I do not think you are a lost case. If words do not convince you, I'll allocate some more prayers for your soul.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

If you truly believe in the word of God, you should believe what it says:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

For many of you, this verse is very common and practically engraved in your very spirit, as it should be. But have you ever considered the verse that comes right after?

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17

Have you ever considered the verses that come right after the verse that comes right after John 3:16?

Jn 3:18-19 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Anyway, I think you're being hypocritical, since you go right ahead and condemn us, comparing us with the Pharisees:

If this does not carry just as much weight for you, I am challenging you to reconsider what you are really preaching here. If you are trying to be more like Jesus, you are not accomplishing that goal. Be wary of your contempt and repent.

Heed Jesus' words when he speaks of the Pharisees in Matthew 15 verses 8 and 9, "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Jesus Himself condemned the Pharisees (Mat 23:13-36), so we are in fact being like Jesus when we condemn people.

They are broken men at that. But they are loved by God just as much as all of you.

Um, no. God doesn't love sinners.

Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Lev 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Deut 32:19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Ps 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Ps 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Ps 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

Ps 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Ps 53:5 There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.

Ps 73:20 As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

Ps 78:59 When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:

Ps 106:40 Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

Prov 6:16-19 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Prov 22:14 The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.

Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Hos 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Am 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.

Zec 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Rev 2:6; 15 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

Did Jesus hang out with Pharisees?

No. In fact, he condemned their hypocritical, arrogant ways. Because what did they do? They only spent time with each other, almost waving salvation in the faces of the unsaved, without doing a single thing to help those who they knew were the outcast, the burdened, the "emo" of his time, the broken.

Well, we're not supposed to keep company with unbelievers.

2 Cor 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

In light of all this, I challenge you all, research what you believe, and act upon what God's word really says. Otherwise, you will have to answer one day for all the people you led away by ignorance and malice.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:15-20

^I love the irony in this.^

**********************

Attention any non-Christians who might have read ilovelostcauses' post: This is not how Jesus has taught Christians to act. He taught us to judge righteously and condemn sin and unbelief. I thoroughly apologize for this man's ignorance of the Bible. Read the Bible for yourself, and don't be mislead by false Christians. You will be surprised what you find. For instance, God does send people to hell: "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev 20:15). Note the passive verb. People don't choose to go there; they are sent there. But there are many more misconceptions too that you will only catch by educating yourselves on what it says. Please do your research. And don't be skeptical; believe everything it says.

[ilovelostcauses]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

My Dear,

Please, try to understand why I find it hard to be convinced that you have read the whole Bible with all your heart and proper concentration. You quoted Romans 7, most of the Chapter. The Epistle does not end there. On the contrary, it continues and the next Chapter is number 8. What a magnificent opening for that Chapter:

Romans 8:1-2
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Again, here, context, please. Paul builds up the tension, and at the beginning of Chapter 8 the tension is released. In Sweet Jesus and His temporary death we are freed from sin if we fill the conditional requirements! How wonderful, how terrific! Also here in the Epistle, we walk on the literary (and literal) path of fear and obeying into Salvation in Jesus if we fill the conditional requirements.

Some other verses you might find useful:

2nd Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The whole Bible. The whole God. All aspects of Jesus.


Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The aspects we intuitively like and consider "nice" and the aspects that make us tremble in fear and awe. The Bible contains all this and also the instruction on how to avoid the quite unpleasant consequences of neglecting pivotal parts of it.

I do not think you are a lost case. If words do not convince you, I'll allocate some more prayers for your soul.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

Thank you for responding much more respectfully and kindly to my last post than some on here tend to.

But let me boil down my question here. So if we were all once sinners, now emancipated because of Jesus, shouldn't we treat sinners with the same respect and love we once found from Christians when we were sinners? Yes, we need to let people know of their sin, but why do it so caustically?

Not all people on this site, but some have treated unsaved people so terribly, and that's what makes me sad. I believe with all my heart that we are to love those people.

And if we can no longer sin, why do some Christians still lie? Is that not a sin? Yes, I agree we are rescued from sin and the consequences thereof, but as far as I have noticed from my own daily observation, it doesn't mean that Christians can't do wrong anymore.

Also, this may not come from your post, I'm not sure, but if God hates sinners, why did he care so much to send Jesus in the first place? If I was in that position, I would not want to save that which I hate. Which is why I cannot accept the thought that God hates sinners. He hates the sin, not the person.

[ilovelostcauses]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

Have you ever considered the verses that come right after the verse that comes right after John 3:16?

Jn 3:18-19 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Anyway, I think you're being hypocritical, since you go right ahead and condemn us, comparing us with the Pharisees:



Jesus Himself condemned the Pharisees (Mat 23:13-36), so we are in fact being like Jesus when we condemn people.



Um, no. God doesn't love sinners.

Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Lev 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Deut 32:19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Ps 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Ps 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Ps 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

Ps 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Ps 53:5 There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them.

Ps 73:20 As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.

Ps 78:59 When God heard this, he was wroth, and greatly abhorred Israel:

Ps 106:40 Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

Prov 6:16-19 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Prov 22:14 The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein.

Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Hos 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

Am 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.

Zec 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Rev 2:6; 15 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.



Well, we're not supposed to keep company with unbelievers.

2 Cor 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?



^I love the irony in this.^

**********************

Attention any non-Christians who might have read ilovelostcauses' post: This is not how Jesus has taught Christians to act. He taught us to judge righteously and condemn sin and unbelief. I thoroughly apologize for this man's ignorance of the Bible. Read the Bible for yourself, and don't be mislead by false Christians. You will be surprised what you find. For instance, God does send people to hell: "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev 20:15). Note the passive verb. People don't choose to go there; they are sent there. But there are many more misconceptions too that you will only catch by educating yourselves on what it says. Please do your research. And don't be skeptical; believe everything it says.

You, sir need to have some tact.

That being said, I love the fact you brought up the Pharisee thing. Pharisees, during Jesus' time were not unbelievers, in fact, they were supposed to be the teachers of the law at the time. Yes, they may not have believed in Jesus, but even Jesus himself was a Jew in every sense of the word, even completing their religion(since he was the Messiah prophesied about in their texts). Therefore Pharisees would not be unbelievers technically speaking. They would be those who misuse God's word at the time for their own personal gain. They were hypocrites. But aren't we all hypocrites. Every one of us is. We tell people to do one thing, when we ourselves do the opposite. I am not immune to this hypocrisy, and therefore you are correct in saying I am a hypocrite. However, you need to own that you are one as well.

On the sinners issue, the Bible contains no contradictions, so how can you say the God hates sinners, when it is very evident that he loves them? If God loves and hates sinners at the same time, that is a character contradiction. God says specifically that He is always the same, so the thought that God can hate sinners yet love them enough to save them from damnation is not accurate according to what the Bible says.
Also, if we apply that same figure of speech to the passages about God “hating sinners,” we can see that the sinner is put in place of the sin. Thus, when God says He hates “a false witness who speaks lies” (Proverbs 6:19), if metonymy is being used, then God hates the lies, and the one who is doing the lying (the cause) is put in place of the lies (the effect). It is interesting to see how clear this feature can be in other contexts. For instance, Proverbs 6:17 says that God hates “a lying tongue.” Does that mean that God hates a physical tongue, made of muscle and body tissue? No. It means God hates the sin that a tongue can perform.
Therefore, God does not hate the sinner, but he hates the sin

It is evident that God loves us before we are made pure in Him.
"For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:6-8).

In conclusion, I do believe people should remain skeptical, for even the Bible says to test and approve everything it says before believing it. I would not believe it if I had not done that very thing.

[Basilissa]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

You, sir need to have some tact.

You, young lady, need to learn how to be concise.

That being said, I love the fact you brought up the Pharisee thing. Pharisees, during Jesus' time were not unbelievers, in fact, they were supposed to be the teachers of the law at the time. Yes, they may not have believed in Jesus, but even Jesus himself was a Jew in every sense of the word, even completing their religion(since he was the Messiah prophesied about in their texts).

According to Christians, yes. According to Jews, no.

Therefore Pharisees would not be unbelievers technically speaking. They would be those who misuse God's word at the time for their own personal gain.

You make it sound as if making money out of religion was bad. Are you trying to say that all televangelists and pastors of megachurches are like Pharisees?

They were hypocrites. But aren't we all hypocrites.

No. We try our best to be 100% accurate when teaching others about the Bible. Others so called "Christians" pick and choose a few nice-sounding verses (like John 3:16) and make people believe that a verse taken out of context counts as the real Word of God.

Every one of us is. We tell people to do one thing, when we ourselves do the opposite. I am not immune to this hypocrisy, and therefore you are correct in saying I am a hypocrite. However, you need to own that you are one as well.

Speak for yourself, sweetie. Even outside of my church, I don't interact with hypocrites too often. I prefer the company of honest people.

On the sinners issue, the Bible contains no contradictions, so how can you say the God hates sinners, when it is very evident that he loves them?

Did you even read the verses provided by Brother Pim, or did you just skipped over them because you (think that you) "know better?"

Please provide me a single verse that states that God loves sinners.

What is evident in the Bible is that sinners have one chance only (one short life vs. the entire eternity), and if they screw that chance, they burn forever in Hell. If God truly loved sinners, He would have given them a second life.

If God loves and hates sinners at the same time, that is a character contradiction. God says specifically that He is always the same, so the thought that God can hate sinners yet love them enough to save them from damnation is not accurate according to what the Bible says.

Wrong - God does not save sinners from salvation, but sends them to Hell. By the way, His definition of sinners include unbabtized newborn babies - so if your child dies before being baptized, he/she goes to Hell.

Also, if we apply that same figure of speech to the passages about God “hating sinners,” we can see that the sinner is put in place of the sin. Thus, when God says He hates “a false witness who speaks lies” (Proverbs 6:19), if metonymy is being used, then God hates the lies, and the one who is doing the lying (the cause) is put in place of the lies (the effect). It is interesting to see how clear this feature can be in other contexts. For instance, Proverbs 6:17 says that God hates “a lying tongue.” Does that mean that God hates a physical tongue, made of muscle and body tissue? No. It means God hates the sin that a tongue can perform.
Therefore, God does not hate the sinner, but he hates the sin

Why are you trying to read the Bible as if it was not written in plain language? I mean, if I really want to read something that is complicated and close to the limits of my comprehension, I read Pierre Bordieau. The advantage of the Bible is its simplicity; it means what it says it means. As to God hating sinning body parts, should I remind you of Matthew 5:29-30?

It is evident that God loves us before we are made pure in Him.
"For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:6-8).

Yet, His love does not extend to the millions of people who died during the last 2000 years without ever hearing about Jesus, and therefore not having the equal opportunity to accept or reject His sacrifice. Therefore, apparently God doesn't love, for example, the people who lived in the Americas between the years A.D. 33 and 1492.

In conclusion, I do believe people should remain skeptical, for even the Bible says to test and approve everything it says before believing it. I would not believe it if I had not done that very thing.

Huh? How do you "test and approve" for example, the entire Genesis?

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

On the sinners issue, the Bible contains no contradictions, so how can you say the God hates sinners, when it is very evident that he loves them? If God loves and hates sinners at the same time, that is a character contradiction. God says specifically that He is always the same, so the thought that God can hate sinners yet love them enough to save them from damnation is not accurate according to what the Bible says.
Also, if we apply that same figure of speech to the passages about God “hating sinners,” we can see that the sinner is put in place of the sin. Thus, when God says He hates “a false witness who speaks lies” (Proverbs 6:19), if metonymy is being used, then God hates the lies, and the one who is doing the lying (the cause) is put in place of the lies (the effect). It is interesting to see how clear this feature can be in other contexts. For instance, Proverbs 6:17 says that God hates “a lying tongue.” Does that mean that God hates a physical tongue, made of muscle and body tissue? No. It means God hates the sin that a tongue can perform.
Therefore, God does not hate the sinner, but he hates the sin

I don't agree with your interpretation. You're assuming that the lying tongue stands in place of the sin. You don't seem to have considered that it could stand in place of the sinner.

Anyway, Paul tells us God hated Esau even before he was born, before he had sinned.

Rom 9:10-15
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

The Bible plainly tells us God hates sinners.

Ps 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

You're twisting God's Word to say what you want it to say.

Hell was made for burning sinners, not sins.

[ilovelostcauses]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

In closing, as I was trying to say in my original post, all non-Christians, please do thorough research for yourselves before disregarding the Bible or true Christianity. Please give God a chance. You don't have to give these people a chance, you don't have to give me a chance, but give God a chance. Because I'm telling you, God loves you and wants you to know him personally. He cares deeply about every one of you. If you want me to prove that, this is the best way I can, and here I am also addressing those objecting to my claims that God loves "sinners":

"2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." -Ephesians 1:1-10

God bless you all and good night.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

In closing, as I was trying to say in my original post, all non-Christians, please do thorough research for yourselves before disregarding the Bible or true Christianity. Please give God a chance. You don't have to give these people a chance, you don't have to give me a chance, but give God a chance. Because I'm telling you, God loves you and wants you to know him personally. He cares deeply about every one of you. If you want me to prove that, this is the best way I can, and here I am also addressing those objecting to my claims that God loves "sinners":

"2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." -Ephesians 1:1-10

God bless you all and good night.

This passage doesn't say God loves sinners, dear. It says God chose True Christian™ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. And we are.

[ilovelostcauses]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

This passage doesn't say God loves sinners, dear. It says God chose True Christian™ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. And we are.

How does the passage say that? Please properly analyze this passage (show your work) and explain how you came to this conclusion to everyone, dear.

I am truly finished now. Goodbye.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

How does the passage say that? Please properly analyze this passage (show your work) and explain how you came to this conclusion to everyone, dear.

I am truly finished now. Goodbye.

Read it for yourself. There's nothing hidden in the text.

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him

Ephesians 1:1-10

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

How does the passage say that? Please properly analyze this passage (show your work) and explain how you came to this conclusion to everyone, dear.

I am truly finished now. Goodbye.

Please make a thread of your own in the "Introductions" section of the forum, so that we can properly greet you. Tell us about yourself, your church, and how you came to find Jesus.

And if you're here to flame us, better take a look at THIS before making an even bigger ass out of yourself.

I will pray that the Holy Spirit enter you and chase the demons out of your rectum and let Jesus fill you with His Grace. If you use your God-given free will to reject Christ and His temporary death on the cross for my sins, then you are sending yourself to hellfire.

[Elmer G. White]

Re: SHOULD 'MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE' STAND TRIAL FOR MURDER ?!!

But let me boil down my question here. So if we were all once sinners, now emancipated because of Jesus, shouldn't we treat sinners with the same respect and love we once found from Christians when we were sinners? Yes, we need to let people know of their sin, but why do it so caustically?

Not all people on this site, but some have treated unsaved people so terribly, and that's what makes me sad. I believe with all my heart that we are to love those people.

Dear Friend,

Now I understand your question. It is about the methodology of spreading the Gospel. I must answer that no, I don't think we are too harsh. There are several reasons for this position:

1. We are on an urgent mission. Rapture is approaching, second coming, End of Days. It is vital to reach out as effectively as possible. The human race has deteriorated so much that only drastic measures work. The people have grown accustomed to atrocities, crime, horrors, war, sodomy, etc. Only adequate shock value reaches them.
2. It is the Truthful way to teach the Gospel. If all Bible is God's word, then we should teach it in its entirety. Sooner or later the aspiring Christian (we hope so) will pick up an actual Bible and read it. Why hide the varied and rich nature of God from them by exposing only the niceties? We are not ashamed of God; we should not be ashamed of the things He's done. He's destroyed entire nations, including women and children! It is His right to do so.
3. The great guide to Life is the Bible. It shows us how to be Saved but also how to express the path to Salvation. And, as we discussed previously, the literary strategy of God (the Author of the Bible) is tension followed by release. First there is fear (war, revenge, hate, obedience) and through this fear and submitting comes the Ultimate Reward, love and Salvation. This can be seen in Romans 1-2, Romans 7-8 (your example), Revelations (horrors followed by the New Heaven and Earth), throughout the OT, Job, Daniel, etc. Why should we not follow God's example in our sermons!?
4. The ultimate manifestation of LOVE is the wish to see sinners Repent, be Baptized and be Saved. All means that enhance this goal are acts of love unsurpassed. The Bible tells us that it is a tough job to reach the sinners.

2 Kings 17:14
Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the LORD their God.

And if we can no longer sin, why do some Christians still lie? Is that not a sin? Yes, I agree we are rescued from sin and the consequences thereof, but as far as I have noticed from my own daily observation, it doesn't mean that Christians can't do wrong anymore.

Also, this may not come from your post, I'm not sure, but if God hates sinners, why did he care so much to send Jesus in the first place? If I was in that position, I would not want to save that which I hate. Which is why I cannot accept the thought that God hates sinners. He hates the sin, not the person.

The answer is the same. It would be a lie to tell a sinner that God's love be unconditional. The Bible does not support that. Those who lie about this are not truly Christians. They can have good intentions and be unaware of the lie. It is still a lie, though. However, it is not that simple. Lying for a good cause IS supported in the Bible. I would perhaps not dare judge which is the adequate cause. God, however, is powerful enough to use this strategy, too.

2 Thessalonians 2:11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

And why question God's intentions. He is more complex than a simple dichotomy hate-love. He loves SINNERS WHO REPENT. There are not too many of those, sadly, but would there be any without Jesus' Temporary Sacrifice.



Matthew 18:13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

And now. Below. My all time favorite verse. Too precious to be placed in my signature. It reveals the intentions and character of God. An entity not to be doubted or questioned. I post this verse rarely as it always makes me tremble and almost lose my bladder control :

Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

That is God. That is what I teach.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer