[RArnold]

Re: I'm confused

Well, let's see.

Between God, who is never wrong:

Belief in witch is my problem Mary

[RArnold]

Re: I'm confused

Belief in witch is my problem Mary

Which, not witch

[RArnold]

Re: I'm confused

You've heard the story of doughting Thomas? Look, it isn't easy to became saved and certainly walking the path of True Christian™ isn't for everybody. You either follow God's rules or you are condemned to everlasting damnation. The scriptures are clear, follow ALL of the Bible.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

You stated the Jesus we worship is different than yours. Well, the one you thought you knew isn't the real Jesus.

Matthew 5:17-20


17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Pretty cut and dried.

And like I say, your arguments are hard to argue with...

[James Hutchins]

Re: I'm confused

Which, not witch

Now you are going off about witches and trying to decide if you like the one from the East or the one from the West?
What is with you God haters? Are you an EMO too?

[RArnold]

Re: I'm confused

Now you are going off about witches and trying to decide if you like the one from the East or the one from the West?
What is with you God haters? Are you an EMO too?

Emo no, I'm not into that.

What's the difference between the one from the east and the one from the west

That's was a typo btw

[RArnold]

Re: I'm confused

And I don't hate God

[Elmer G. White]

Re: I'm confused

Dear Person,

It is a blessing to have you here on the Forum. At last we have the chance to show you the whole nature of Christ and His inspired work the Bible. You seem to be a genuine, sincere seeker. That is a good starting point to your education in things Spiritual.

Oh and I believe in evolution too. Does that make me any less of a Christian?

It does. It makes you less a Christian because you cannot believe in evolution or accept it without dismissing large parts of the Bible. This leads to all kinds of problems that I'm going to assess below. You see, Christianity is about God and His incarnation, Jesus. Jesus came down for a purpose: to redeem the sins. Redemption would not be necessary without sin and sin would not have been possible without the Fall in Eden. If the Eden story is false (for the sake of the argument), the whole cascade of events that led to Jesus would be ridiculous:

• God making up rules that He didn't tell to us humans (they didn't know good and evil yet; Genesis 2:25, Genesis 3:5).
• Humans breaking these rules (Gensis 3:6-7).
• God punishing them etc. etc.

If this had come to be by way of natural selection, it would be impossible to pinpoint the occurrence of the Fall. The process of gradual acquisition of mental capabilities (as we can see with rooks, apes, elephants and cetaceans) would have led to a disarray of mental cognition prone to many errors. No Fall would be necessary. No Jesus would be needed. There would be nothing to save us from.

The 'it' is not my brother, the 'it' is natural selection. As a Christian I believe that God made all of life through evolution.

This causes severe problems to your (I'm presuming this based on your posts) view about the total goodness of God. Billions of years of mindless suffering to produce humans. Yes, suffering without hope of redemption for the animals with relatively large brains and pain and loss. Instead, Genesis 1:28 tells us that animals were created for us and their suffering matters very little. If this were not true, God would have been a bloody tinkerer trying this and that and something else and deciding capriciously to make a species extinct here and there. An Omnipotent entity would know how to make it right all at once. This argument of yours makes God either incapable, devoid of His characteristics (Good, Omnipotent, Omniscient) or a fraud.

The 'Darwinist' theory of evolution by means of natural selection holds that all life has a common ancestor (Last Universal Common Ancestor-LUCA) which implies (through various means) that we share a common ancestor with modern apes. Black people are genetically identical apart from the fact their cells contain more melanin than white people. That's it, I hope you don't consider them a different species...

The theory of evolution includes that heresy but, in fact, its main message is that there is a permanent shift in the Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium of allele frequences due to various influences (selection, chance, sexual selection, genetic drift, etc.). This changes the allele frequencies of a population and can result in character evolution, change of phenotype.

I don't mean it to be cruel, I didn't mean to insult.

Anyway, it's not an insult; There is grandure in this view of life...

Believing in God should not be a barrier to understanding

Quoting Darwin, are you? That is OK. His writing is seductively beautiful especially in these last paragraphs of the "Origin".

It is interesting to contemplate an entangled bank, clothed with many plants of many kinds, with birds singing on the bushes, with various insects flitting about, and with worms crawling through the damp earth, and to reflect that these elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent on each other in so complex a manner, have all been produced by laws acting around us. These laws, taken in the largest sense, being Growth with Reproduction; inheritance which is almost implied by reproduction; Variability from the indirect and direct action of the external conditions of life, and from use and disuse; a Ratio of Increase so high as to lead to a Struggle for Life, and as a consequence to Natural Selection, entailing Divergence of Character and the Extinction of less-improved forms. Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life...

Beautiful! So much more elegant than modern peer-reviewed papers. Ultimately, its beauty has nothing to do with its Truth™ value. This nice passage also includes that same problems: God Creating through pain without any chance for Salvation. If there is a God (for the sake of the argument), pain makes no sense unless there is a reward, Heaven. Furthermore, observing these phenomena can logically lead to evolutionary thought but God warns us against dismissal of His Word:

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

God IS capricious towards those who abandon Him. He makes them fall deeper into disbelief by sending them input of false data. This makes the scholars misinterpret the signs of the "natural" world. I'm afraid you're on your way there...

Well that encapsulates my very issue, do I choose the bible, or scientific evidence?

YES! This IS the issue!

There are absolutely no other data except the Bible to base our Christian Faith on. You've now been explained how the OT is pivotal for the Biblical message. Without Genesis, Jesus would simply be a fool saving people from some petty rules He Himself designed.

I know there are several attempts to harmonize the Bible with naturalism. We have exegetics that tries to make the Bible a work of non-inerrant literature. If exegetics is true, then we can never know which parts of the Bible to trust and the only logical conclusion is that we cannot trust any of it. We have the quest for the "historical Jesus", which is a hazardous one as it also makes the whole business of incarnation suspicious and the logical outcome is that there would be insufficient evidence. Then we have the "personal feelings" God or a "Supreme being" that I-feel-something-must-be-there-because-I-feel-if. The begging-the-question God. Both evolutionary theory (random events included) and the Bible (see 2 Thessalonians 2:11 once again) inform us that we cannot trust our senses or our memory or our conclusions. There is also lots of experimental evidence how people's memories can be distorted. Faith is unlike science:

• In science there are probalilities and statistics. Nothing is True™. There are only approximations, you cannot determine all the aspects of an electron simultaneously.
• In Faith there is certainty. This paradigm does not allow statistics because once they enter, it is no longer Faith.
• If you start examining the Bible for "true" and "false" items, it will never stop. Someone will disagree and boy they have! There are miles of bookshelves with disagreement how to "interpret" the Bible. Only by accepting it all can there be unity.

Fear God. He can do anything to you. Don't try to make Him anything He is not. He is loving and He is fearsome. He Creates everything, even things you don't like. You see, it is not about your preferences but His.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Is the above verse false? If it is, please inform us about your method that is NOT based on your preferences or hearsay: How can you discern the true verses from the false ones! Make it waterproof!

Fear God, accept that His good is not "nice". Stop negotiating. Realize that He can comfort you but also deceive you (the 2 Thessalonians once again). You are correct: both the Bible and the theory of evolution cannot be true simultaneously. Theistic evolution or ID make God an unprofessional tinkerer and less than omnipotent. Deism makes Him nonchalant to our suffering.

Our Faith, True Christianity™ accepts Him as He is.

Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: I'm confused

Belief in witch is my problem Mary

So you're a Christian who loves God, believes Jesus saved him, but doesn't believe He exists?

More proof atheism is really a mental disorder.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: I'm confused

Dear Irish Witch;

First of all, this is NOT a debate forum. We're right and you're wrong, according to Jesus and the Holy Word of God. Please read THIS thread before making an even bigger fool of yourself.

Secondly, while the internets might seem to be "free" to you, this particular corner of the internets is a privately owned Christian forum. The rights you have on this forum are listed HERE. Please contact a Pastor immediately if you feel that any of your rights have been violated.

Finally, your unsaved opinions or tantrums are not even slightly of interest to us. We follow the Holy Word of God TO THE LETTER, and make no apologies for that. One of the most important commandments in the Bible tells us to avoid unsaved scum such as yourself. You wandered in here uninvited, and unwelcome .

If you want to debate people, THIS is the place to go.

Please make a proper thread of your own in the "Introductions" section of the forum, so that we can properly greet you. Tell us about yourself, your church, and how you came to find Jesus.

And if you're here to flame us, better take a look at THIS before making an even bigger ass out of yourself.

I will pray that the Holy Spirit enter you and chase the demons out of your rectum and let Jesus fill you with His Grace. If you use your God-given free will to reject Christ and His temporary death on the cross for my sins, then you are sending yourself to hellfire.

YIC,

Pastor Ezekiel

[RArnold]

Re: I'm confused

Elmer, thank you, I think I get the gist...

I have decided to forget the scientific approach, reject evolution and focus on the bible- I either accept all of it or none of it.

The bible itself tells us of its truth, so why would anyone doubt it?!

I'm going to live by the bible TO THE LETTER from now on. I am not going to question it, my blind faith will earn me salvation and with your support I can be saved.

Praise GOD!

[Basilissa]

Re: I'm confused

Elmer, thank you, I think I get the gist...

I have decided to forget the scientific approach, reject evolution and focus on the bible- I either accept all of it or none of it.

The bible itself tells us of its truth, so why would anyone doubt it?!

I'm going to live by the bible TO THE LETTER from now on. I am not going to question it, my blind faith will earn me salvation and with your support I can be saved.

Praise GOD!

Good for you, dear! I pray that your conversion is truly sincere! From now on, you will follow the Only True God - the God for whose existence and character we have written evidence in the Bible, not the false all-loving "god" imagined by false Christians!

[RArnold]

Re: I'm confused

Good for you, dear! I pray that your conversion is truly sincere! From now on, you will follow the Only True God - the God for whose existence and character we have written evidence in the Bible, not the false all-loving "god" imagined by false Christians!

Thank you and I am sincere. I want to be a true Christian.

[RArnold]

Re: I'm confused

So you're a Christian who loves God, believes Jesus saved him, but doesn't believe He exists?

More proof atheism is really a mental disorder.

You misunderstand, I don't believe in god!

And please read the above posts, I have decided that I want to be derped!

I suppose you're right, it is a disorder! Who would want to be an atheist?

[Basilissa]

Re: I'm confused

I have decided to forget the scientific approach, reject evolution and focus on the bible- I either accept all of it or none of it.

The bible itself tells us of its truth, so why would anyone doubt it?!

I'm going to live by the bible TO THE LETTER from now on. I am not going to question it, my blind faith will earn me salvation and with your support I can be saved.

Praise GOD!

Thank you and I am sincere. I want to be a true Christian.

You misunderstand, I don't believe in god!

And please read the above posts, I have decided that I want to be derped!

I suppose you're right, it is a disorder! Who would want to be an atheist?

Sweetie, all that flip-flopping is making my head hurt.

Could you please decide, either be a good Bible-following Christian or an atheist fool (Psalm 14:1), and just stick to one version of your convoluted story?

[Paul the priest]

Re: I'm confused

Yes but the Romans did not believe in Jesus, they just knew him.