A christian engineer writes...

[Stuart_John_Woods]

If I'm going to introduce myself on these forums I should probably start from the very beginning.

My maternal grandfather was an electrical engineer. My mother folowed in his footsteps, eventually becoming a techinical drawing specialist working in design workshops. My father is a church organist and has a lifetime of experience of expressing his love for God through music.

I was brought up as a Christian and accepted Christ at a Billy Graham rally (via Satellite) at the age of ten years old. I was sent to a Church of England school and spent my youth attending various Christian youth groups and study groups.

I ran into a few individuals who I would describe as "fundamentalists" during my time. These were people who held bizzarre opinions about the formation of the universe.

Nonconfirmist Christianinty (which emerged during the renaissance era) does not have any issues with science or engineering. Granted, the theory of evolution is still a theory, but it isn't considered to be evil by most Christians in Europe. Questions about the beginnings of life in the Solar System and the wider universe are openly discussed.

A common opinion expressed in Europe (a continent which has seen incredible attrocities comitted in the last few centuries) is that any idea that Adolph Hitler agreed with must have been bad.

For those of you who don't know, Adolph Hitler put a lot of effort into trying to muder as many Jews, ethnic minorities and homosexuals as possible. Europe has seen the horrors that hate can bring to the human race. Spouting hate aganst Jews, ethinic minorities and homosexuals is completely illegal in europe for good reason!

Don't underestimate the rationale of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" in Europe. The Nazis were the enemy and they always will be!

Let me reiterate: Christians in Europe don't hate scientists, engineers, NASA astronouts, human beings of any race, creed, or any colour whatsoever. If the bible had told us to do otherwise, we would have noticed!

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

For those of you who don't know, Adolph Hitler put a lot of effort into trying to muder as many Jews, ethnic minorities and homosexuals as possible. Europe has seen the horrors that hate can bring to the human race. Spouting hate aganst Jews, ethinic minorities and homosexuals is completely illegal in europe for good reason!

Yes,.. because the United States imposed those laws on Europe after its victory in World War II.

Let me reiterate: Christians in Europe don't hate scientists, engineers, NASA astronouts, human beings of any race, creed, or any colour whatsoever. If the bible had told us to do otherwise, we would have noticed!

And,..? A TRUE Christian has no fellowship with the wicked. Just because Europe wants to embrace evil doers is no argument for an American TRUE Christian to do the same. One just has to look to the example of Hitler to see that Europe hardly can claim to set the standard of righteousness or even decent behavior.

PS Before you cry shame at America; please remember the Europe you live in today was built on gold stolen from American Indians, the profits of the slave trade in West Africans and the forced drug trade in opium with China. There certainly has been no "American Congo" nightmare corporate state.

[miss Pauletta]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

A common opinion expressed in Europe (a continent which has seen incredible attrocities comitted in the last few centuries) is that any idea that Adolph Hitler agreed with must have been bad.

A common fact expressed in the Bible is that any idea God agrees with must be good. Your Hitler argument is irrelevant and a logical fallacy. No human being sets the benchmark for morality one way or the other. Only God can do that.

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:17

[Brother Helge]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

If I'm going to introduce myself on these forums I should probably start from the very beginning.

Welcome!

My maternal grandfather was an electrical engineer. My mother folowed in his footsteps, eventually becoming a techinical drawing specialist working in design workshops. My father is a church organist and has a lifetime of experience of expressing his love for God through music.

Wait a minute... Your mother did not stay home and nurture you?

I was brought up as a Christian and accepted Christ at a Billy Graham rally (via Satellite) at the age of ten years old. I was sent to a Church of England school and spent my youth attending various Christian youth groups and study groups.

Fair enough - Billy once was a great Pastor. How old are you by the way?

I ran into a few individuals who I would describe as "fundamentalists" during my time. These were people who held bizzarre opinions about the formation of the universe.

Yeah, I met some of those "Darwinists" at school as well.

Nonconfirmist Christianinty (which emerged during the renaissance era) does not have any issues with science or engineering. Granted, the theory of evolution is still a theory, but it isn't considered to be evil by most Christians in Europe. Questions about the beginnings of life in the Solar System and the wider universe are openly discussed.

Now I'm not sure if I follow... Evilution will not take you anywhere but hell.

A common opinion expressed in Europe (a continent which has seen incredible attrocities comitted in the last few centuries) is that any idea that Adolph Hitler agreed with must have been bad.

I also agree this is wrong. The Autobahns were great ideas!
And the social care for single mums. An awfull lot of Good German men died in the Great War.

For those of you who don't know, Adolph Hitler put a lot of effort into trying to muder as many Jews, ethnic minorities and homosexuals as possible. Europe has seen the horrors that hate can bring to the human race. Spouting hate aganst Jews, ethinic minorities and homosexuals is completely illegal in europe for good reason!.

Now you are mixing stuff up again. Hitler killed some homers and displaced the joos and all of a sudden you forgot the Autobahns?

Don't underestimate the rationale of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" in Europe. The Nazis were the enemy and they always will be!

No they were not - until they had the bad taste to attack Pearl Harbour!
A lot of good Christian men died that day.

Let me reiterate: Christians in Europe don't hate scientists, engineers, NASA astronouts, human beings of any race, creed, or any colour whatsoever. If the bible had told us to do otherwise, we would have noticed!

What the heck are you talking about?

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

A common opinion expressed in Europe (a continent which has seen incredible attrocities comitted in the last few centuries) is that any idea that Adolph Hitler agreed with must have been bad.

Thank you for sharing. By the way, a common opinion expressed in America is that a stopped clock is right twice a day. Hitler was a very bad man, being a Romanist and all, but it's fatuous to say that anything with which he disagreed must be bad.

Let me reiterate: Christians in Europe don't hate scientists, engineers, NASA astronouts, human beings of any race, creed, or any colour whatsoever.

Then "Christians" in Europe are false Christian fluffy bunnies, but we already knew that.

If the bible had told us to do otherwise, we would have noticed!

I get the feeling that there are lots of things in the Bible that you haven't noticed. Since I have to go into a pastoral meeting shortly, let me give just one example of one of the things that you've mentioned, namely, people of different creeds:

2 Chron. 15:12-13: And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul; That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

I'll gladly give you more examples later if you wish.

[John Creeser]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

I ran into a few individuals who I would describe as "fundamentalists" during my time. These were people who held bizzarre opinions about the formation of the universe.

Well there are no "bizzare opinions" from True Christian's™ here. All of our beliefs come straight from the King James version of the Bible.

My father is a church organist

Please refrain from suggestive profanity, there are young Christians on this forum. And what kind of church encourages fornication?

[Brother Helge]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

Well there are no "bizzare opinions" from True Christian's™ here. All of our beliefs come straight from the King James version of the Bible.

I belive he is talking about Darwinists.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

Let me reiterate: Christians in Europe don't hate scientists, engineers, NASA astronouts, human beings of any race, creed, or any colour whatsoever. If the bible had told us to do otherwise, we would have noticed!

So, you have never read a bible?

1Tm:6:20: O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Tm:6:21: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

If this guy's a Christian, then I'm flipping oysterburgers for the King of Spain right now.

[Stuart_John_Woods]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

I hope I haven't been misunderstood here. Allow me to clarify in more detail.

I became a Christian at the age of ten years old. I was sent to a Church of England school. My teachers were Christians, my classmates were Christians.

The curriculum included religious studies, but also included the UK National Curriculum, which includes mathematics, science, and many other subjects besides.

I've heard about the creation versus science debate that has been going on in America, but have rarely encountered such conflict among Christians in the UK. I was never approached by anyone in my family or church and cautioned against studying mathematics or science.

My great uncle Mervin, who was a minister (Methodist I think) . He was the eldest of seven brothers (my paternal grandfather, Arthur, being the youngest). His family could only afford to send one of their children to university, so they sent their eldest (Mervin). All of his siblings left school at fourteen. As an educated man, Mervin was know for his fascination with technology. He was the first known member of that branch of the family to own a car, a television, and so on.

Mervin was fascinated by the space program and collected National Geographic magazines on the subject. When he learned that I had developed an interest in the Apollo Program, he sent all of his magazines to me. He wanted them to be passed on to someone who would appreciate them.

My paternal grandfather was not able to benefit from a university eductaion, so he entered work at fourteen years of age (as was the norm at the time). He became an accountant (showing aptitude for mathematics) and worked for a construction firm for much of his life. He was given an engraved fruit bowl as a retirement gift which is still kept in my parents' house as a keepsake. Both he and his wife, Enid, were devoted Christians. Again, I'm quite sure they were Methodists.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

Yes, yes, yes... but which were you? Christian or Methodist?

[Stuart_John_Woods]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

My maternal grandfather, David, was an electrical engineer. He was distantly descended from the Urquhart clan. His ancestors were displaced during the highland clearances of the industrial revolution. Therefore, although I'm eligible to wear the tartan of the Urquhart clan, none of my ancestors in living memory spoke with a Scottish accent.

He was a Baptist lay preacher and underwent some kind of ordination when I was a child. I was present when this happened, but was roughly four or five years old at the time, so I didn't fully understand what was happening.

He posessed many books on theology, mostly related to study of the Bible. He had been writing some kind of book, the contents of which were never revealed to me. When he died, his daughters found the book manuscript and decided to throw it away, since none of them understood it.

I was at a stage in my life where I had become deeply hungry for knowledge about God's universe. When my grandfather became Ill, I tried repeatedly to get him to open up to me about his beliefs. I wanted him to pass on his wisdom to me. Make no mistake, this is a man that everyone in my family looked up to. I desperately wanted to know what he knew about God. Unfortunately, he was also known for being very quiet and withdrawn. Although each of his three daughters knew that he loved them dearly, none were able to get close to him emotionally.

When I heard that his book had been destroyed, I was angry. I wasn't angry at any of my relatives, they had no means of knowing that someone in the family might have wanted access to his book. Although he had many grandchildren (and now has many great grandchildren), he had made it known that he was pleased that I had chosen to follow hrist at such a young age. When it became apparent that he would die soon, I tried repeatedly to get close to him so that I could find out what he knew about God.

When he died, God gave me the answer I had been searching for. God used the entire situation to underline the fallacy of my approach. I was trying to get close to God through knowledge, not faith. I had "been there and done that" in sunday school throughout m youth and I wanted more. I wanted to move on. God made the situation perfectly clear. If I wanted to come to him, I had to come to him direct. Relying on my own knowledge or the knowledge of my elder relatives was a path destined towards failure. God told me to honour my father and mother, perhaps I took those instructions too literally. God was my teacher and I had lost sight of that.

[Stuart_John_Woods]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

There were some questions asked about my parents, so I'll try to answer them.

My parents met in their late twenties and struggled with fertility problems and miscarriages. They were well into their thirties by the time I was born. When my brother arrived a few years later, my mother was warned that she had left things too late and she was risking her health and the health of her child by having a second baby.

My parents were determined that I should not have been an only child, so they took the risk of having a second child. My brother has always been a very close companion of mine through life and always will be. After the birth of my brother, my parents explained their resoning for the use of contraceptives. They believe that having too many children exasperates the problems of poverty and food supply that the bible mandates us to rectify.

My parents believe that having too many children is wasteful and greedy. Interpret this how you will, however this is the viewpoint I was raised to believe.

[Stuart_John_Woods]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

THere was a question about my father being a church organist. I assume that the comment about use of profane language was meant as a joke. However, having spens some time reading these forrums I intend to leave nothing to chance.

My father has always been musically gifted. Unfortunately, he as afflicted by the measels as a child, resulting in permanent damage to his hearing.

He persevered. He studied music at Durham University, he went on to have numerous symphonies published. He spent his entire working life as a civil servant, giving his services as a musician freely for many charity events. He was eventually given the MBE by Queen Elizabeth II (the proudest moment of his life, which I was overjoyed to witness in person) for his charity work with the Archbishop of Canterbury. Sinnce retiring, he still plays for the archbishop regularly.

[Stuart_John_Woods]

Re: A christian engineer writes...

A question was asked about whether my mother stayed home to nurture me. This is a relevant question that deserves an answer in full.

My maternal grandfather was working as an electrical engineer in Switzerland during the 1930s. My grandfather was an outspoken pacifist and remained as such throughout the second world war and the conflicts that came after it, well into the twenty first century.

When war came to Europe, my maternal grandfather found himself encircled within a neutral country (Switzerland), unable to return home. War was abhorrant to him, but there was nothing he could do to return to his homeland or prevent what was happening in Europe. He was deeply distressed by the events of world war two.

He remained in Switzerland and eventually returned to the United Kingdom to marry his sweetheart, Dorothy. As a result, the eldest of his daughters (Elizabeth) was born alongside the many post-war "baby boomers" of the late 1940s. He was later very pleased to learn that the first born son of one of his daughters had accepted Christ as his saviour, although he was unhappy to learn that his favourite grandson was an enlisted man.