[TheWielder]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

Would you care to support your argument with philosophically sound arguments, as opposed to the ever-popular informal fallacy, the "Appeal to Fear"?

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

Oh, you're afraid now? Maybe that's because you're relying on Hong Kong Fooey magic instead of Jesus.

Being a Christian means never having to fear anything.

Except the Lord.

[TheWielder]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

*Facepalm* I didn't say it worked. Threatening to "lay a Godly beating" on me is an appeal to fear, and not a very good one over the internet. Also, it should be noted that the idea of "Change your views or face pain" is what has started every religious war to date, plus the Inquisition. Just saying.

Now, again, let's see some reason. Prove to me that I'm wrong.

[Little Donkey]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

Guns, huh? Tossing out the big, explosive Howitzers, Rocket-Launchers, RPG's, and the like... I'd probably say it's a tie between a modern mac, the AUG-HBAR, and the classic M-1 Garand Carbine, for very different reasons. Yours?

Actually I don't own any officially (legally...) but me and my buddies have some odd assortments laying around - if you know what I mean . This one is interesting, doesn't take much aiming to shoot rabbits off the back of a pickup. I guess it's my current favorite.

[TheWielder]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

Ah, looks like a bit of a Masher, that does! Nice, simple design, without accuracy being much of an issue. Looks like a dead watermelon waiting to happen.

[TheWielder]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

@Faith, tell ya what, mate. I'm gonna head to bed, and leave this thread open. When I wake up, I'll respond to whatever happens whilst I sleep. Go ahead, take your time formulating your response. I like challenges.

[Wide-Open]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

"Change your views or face pain" is what has started every religious war to date, plus the Inquisition. Just saying.

One might say that our Holy Bible is pretty much about changing your heathen views or face ETERNAL pain.

And please do not bring in the Inquisition: confusing false Christians in a killing spree with True Christianity(TM) is an abomination to both me and The Lord.

[WilliamJenningsBryan]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

You seem to be a bit confused here. On the one hand you say that " Ki itself is presently impossible to observe directly", and then two paragraphs later you say that "Ki IS scientifically observable".

Son, I've heard all the arguments about this "energy" crap (call it anything you like – "orgone", "Ki", "Odic" force, and "luminiferous aether"), and the vast majority of it is just that – crap.

In physics there is this thing called Bell's theorem which posits that the universe is non-local. Bell's theorem turns out to be true from experiments conducted some years ago. It basically says that such a thing as "action at a distance" is possible – that the spin of an electron can be instantaneously "affected" by spin of a electron at the opposite end of the universe. This was all part of what Einstein didn't like about quantum mechanics, and was what in part led him to make the famous quote – "God doesn't play dice with the universe".

So the argument goes that since we as human beings are made up of all the quantum stuff – particularly our "brains", that we can just "think" things that will affect the collapse of the quantum mechanics probability wave and make things "physically" happen in other things that are made up of "quantum" matter.

I've been assured by one of the top physicists in the country that Debbie Wasserman-Shultz and the DNC are not going to be able to levitate Obama and make him walk on water any time soon, and that also goes for anything having to do with your "Ki" crap as well. Most of your so-called "scientific" evidence turns out to be anecdotal and testimonials, or can the traced to the placebo effect.

The only real "power" here is Jesus – and you need to get with Him and you will be plugged into the only power there is in the universe.

As far as your "martial arts" are concerned, I think the chinks came up with this stuff to compensate for the fact that God made them small. I think you are wasting your time frankly, and as a practical matter I don't think all that training is going to do you any good with a fast moving bullet, a predator drone, or a low yield nuclear weapon. Pretending you are in ancient China (or Korea, or Japan for that matter) is just a fantasy game and you are deluding yourself – along with denying Jesus His proper praise.

[TheWielder]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

@Wide, Aye, one could say that. One could also say it's a history book. And if you're offended by history, then I don't really have much to say to you.

@Will, ever heard of the Strawman fallacy? Look it up some time. That and Red Herring.

Anyhow. Ki is impossible to observe directly and can only be seen by its effects. For example, when a grown man is sent to the floor by a quick motion and no contact. Or when his arm starts to seize or spasm uncontrollably for the next ten minutes. Or the measurable heat difference, or the user fainting if he uses too much. In my training, I've put folk in earth-shattering pain. Furthermore, denying the possibility of Ki existing is similar to denying the possibility of God existing. In both cases, the question and answer are the same: "How do you know it exists?" "I've had personal experiences, and here's some proof."

So yeah, the vast majority of that stuff is crap. This just happens to be in that little minority.

Personally, I definitely hope Obama doesn't start levitating and gaining various supernatural powers, because that would most likely mean he's the antichrist and we'll have a hell of a fight on our hands for the next seven years or so.

And maybe one of the reasons few people know about this is because they know that no one else will accept it into their beliefs. You gent's sure aren't willing to.

As for your comment about Martial Arts, again, Strawman. Aside from that, if the smurfs had no contact with anyone larger than them, do you think they'd think about how small they are? I seriously doubt it. So the idea that they created martial arts to compensate? Doesn't exactly hold water. Besides that, Martial Arts are, as I said, an intensely intellectual and philosophical pursuit. You don't become a martial artist and remain the same person, similar (but not the same) to how you don't follow God and remain the same. And maybe I can't do much about a speeding bullet, but I can do a lot before it's fired. All I need is to be in close. Or to have one of my throwing knives on me. Or hit him with Ki.

Though, with luck the philosophically-augmented aspects of me will be able to prevent any such situations from happening. Whether it's by negotiating peace or by knowing when to run, Martial Arts training still has some affect on the outcome.

And yeah, I'm definitely pretending I'm in ancient whereeverdafuq.

By the way, I'm finding three things interesting:
1) You're all latching onto the Ki idea.
2) None of you take Martial Arts seriously.
3) Faith still hasn't responded to my challenge.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

Anyhow. Ki is impossible to observe directly and can only be seen by its effects. For example, when a grown man is sent to the floor by a quick motion and no contact. Or when his arm starts to seize or spasm uncontrollably for the next ten minutes. Or the measurable heat difference, or the user fainting if he uses too much. In my training, I've put folk in earth-shattering pain. Furthermore, denying the possibility of Ki existing is similar to denying the possibility of God existing. In both cases, the question and answer are the same: "How do you know it exists?" "I've had personal experiences, and here's some proof."

Friend,

We're Christians, not Wiccans here. We only believe in stuff that we directly observed, like God. It hardly takes personal experience to prove God exists. To a TRUE Christian any kind of woo woo experience written down in some musty old book is just going make them smile.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

The Bible is not 100% accurate- there are discrepancies between the four gospels, for instance, in the events that occurred. Furthermore, the bible itself was written by men, and later compiled by men, who at the time were most likely thinking "Which of these stories would be best for our growing religion?" rather than "Which of these were written by God himself?" Men are incredibly fallible, and though the bible contains God's word, it is tainted by the failings of men. As a direct result, claiming that just because this was never mentioned in the bible, it doesn't exist, is an invalid argument.

A few questions here.

First, if the Bible is not 100% accurate, and if it contradicts itself, how do you know what to believe about Jesus?

Second, the Bible repeatedly records God's promise to preserve His Word (Scripture verses upon request). Therefore, one of the following must be true:

1. A Divinely preserved Bible exists today.
2. God was incapable of fulfilling His promise to preserve His Word.
3. God reneged on His promise to preserve His Word.
4. God isn't aware that His Word has been corrupted.
5. The Bible was never the Word of God to begin with.
6. There is no God.

If you believe any of 2-6, in what sense are you a Christian?

Anyhow. Ki is impossible to observe directly and can only be seen by its effects. For example, when a grown man is sent to the floor by a quick motion and no contact. Or when his arm starts to seize or spasm uncontrollably for the next ten minutes. Or the measurable heat difference, or the user fainting if he uses too much. In my training, I've put folk in earth-shattering pain. Furthermore, denying the possibility of Ki existing is similar to denying the possibility of God existing. In both cases, the question and answer are the same: "How do you know it exists?" "I've had personal experiences, and here's some proof."

That is pretty much the same as what I've heard Wiccans claim about their gods and their "magickal" abilities. How are your claims any more credible than theirs?

[TheWielder]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

@Bobby-Joe, Can you see, touch, taste, hear, or smell God? You cannot. Therefore, you cannot observe him Directly. You can observe him through other sources, but not through direct observation. It's the same with Ki. Furthermore, assuming Ki is, as I have concluded, one's soul, then there is no reason I know of that would cause conflict with scripture. We have souls, and if Ki is the same as a soul, then we all have Ki.

Now either someone needs to bring something new to the Ki table, or we're gonna stop talking about it, cuz I feel like I'm just repeating myself.

----

@Isaac, I know to believe in Christ because I know Christ. It took a while, but I eventually moved from "Believing because I'm told to" to "Believing because I choose to." In the process, I threw out many concepts that simply do not hold water, such as the bible being 100% accurate. Logically, it could be anywhere from 0.000...1% accurate, to 99.999...% accurate. But the discrepancies between the gospels alone prevent it from being 100% accurate. Above all, I know God, I know Christ, I know who and what he was, and I know what he did. I know this because I know him. The rest follows.

I suppose, out of those options, number 4 is the closest. More likely, it's the case that God knows his word is corrupted, but there is a reason for it. God's plan, from what I have gathered, is like a massive group of wind-up cars laid out on the floor. Some turn in some direction, others go faster or slower, but all affect each other. The Cars represent people, animals, even scripture. Say God needed a car that turns slightly left or slightly right, rather than one that goes straight ahead, in order to impact other cars in just such a way as to achieve the end result. That would be Scripture being slightly corrupted. I dare to say that if the Bible were perfect and yet still made by men, it would either not exist in the first place due to the contradiction made, or men would be perfect and still hanging out in everyone's favorite Garden. I don't claim to know God's plan. I know nothing of it other than how it's structured, and even that is a Guess. I'm only human, and cannot possibly fathom the intricacies of the mind of God. But Philosophia, the root of the word "Philosophy," means Love of Wisdom, and demands that we seek wisdom. So, despite the futility of it, I'm still gonna try and figure it out as best as I can.

By the way, you're using Circular Reasoning. The Bible is God's Word, because it says so in the Bible, which is God's Word.

Furthermore, I don't claim any credibility. I'm stating what I know and believe to be true, and I'm defending that it's possible. It's not even why I'm really here, I just wanted to talk about Martial Arts and other topics, this being only one of them. Many people seem to have decided to latch on to it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me make something very clear. I expect out of everyone who's attempting to debate anything to be able to use Reason and Logic. God is perfectly justifiable, and even provable, through such methods. However, almost all of you have used and relied upon some variety of Logical Fallacy thus far.

Zech has used Straw Man and Ad Hominem.
Faith_Machine has used an Appeal to Fear, and a bit of Ad Hominem
Roberta threw out a Straw Man
Jack tossed another Ad Hominem/Straw Man combo into the mix
Laurence went for the Straw Man
William also used Straw Man, but was hungry for fish so he brought in a Red Herring.
Bobby-Joe used an interesting combination, one of both The Moving Goalpost and Inconsistency.
Pastor Isaac was the best thought-out, but in this case that means it only had more sophisticated Fallacies. False Dichotomy, reducing many possibilities to few. Tautology, or Circular Reasoning, A is true because B, which is true because A. False Continuum, the idea that when there's no clear difference between two concepts, the difference is not meaningful, and they are the same.

I'm definitely trying not to use any myself, but it's often quite difficult to see your own failings without assistance. If anyone sees me using such fallacies, please do call me out on it. They're holes in my arguments that need patching.

The only two who have not used fallacies, as far as I can tell, are Little Donkey and Wide-Open. The former because he hasn't argued anything, the latter because he simply didn't say much.

To be honest, however, these facts are very disappointing. Surely you all can do better?

[VictoryOS]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

Ah, looks like a bit of a Masher, that does! Nice, simple design, without accuracy being much of an issue. Looks like a dead watermelon waiting to happen.

Friend, racism isn't appreciated at Landover Baptist Church and we'd rather you didn't talk about our colored Brothers and Sisters in this manner.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

If God cared about chink martial arts He'd have mentioned them in His book.

Also, none of us cares what YOU expect. We care what God expects so stop laying the law down if you want to stay.

[Catherine Moore]

Re: Christian Swordsman with a question or twenty

So is Ki another word for Thetan?