[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

Does he tell the chickens to do his bidding? Does he say: Go back to your hen and lay some eggs for me
No, he makes the chickens move by cutting of all other ways out, except the one that leads to the hen. There he made some nests for the chicken to lay the eggs in. So yeah, he uses ways that the chicken can understand and that are logical to the chicken. So thank you for proving my point

My word, but you're confused. I think you've proved my point. The chicken farmer obviously isn't interested in whether the chickens understand it or whether it's logical to them, since he isn't reasoning with them; he just gets them to do what he wants. So it is with God: He doesn't care whether we understand His will or whether it's logical to us. In fact, very often, we don't, and it isn't, but that isn't God's problem.

[Seraph]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

You say you aren't positive there is a God. Atheists claim they do not believe in God as they have no proof. You can't prove a negative. Therefore, all atheists are really agnostics and all agnostics are atheists.

There is a subtle difference between the two. A true Atheist says that there is no God, period. A true Agnost accepts that they have no evidence for the existence of a God and therefore do not believe that there is a God. Like I said, it is a subtle difference, but a difference non-the-less.

That's because this world is cursed and evil. God's principles are perfect and incomprehensible to us.

Then why did he make the world like this? Why did he allow it to become cursed and evil?

If I had been there, I would have helped. But I was not there. Considering that nobody was able to save these people's lives, I conclude that God wanted them to die. So now I am happy about it.

You are happy about the deaths of those people? How is that helping the family members of those victims? Even if your God intended them to die and even if it was what they deserved (with which I do not agree), then you are not helping them mourn. You laugh at them. You laugh at them when they are at their most vulnerable. That is not the idea I have of helping.

But I'm telling you because I love you. Why are you being so mean?

I do not want to be mean to you. To be honest, you actually seem to be a nice guy to me. But do not try to convince me to step off from what I believe. That step can only made by myself.

Psychology is a load of manure. God created people, I think He understands better than some "doctors". How could a human accurately judge the behavior of other humans? Did you know that according to the Bible, thoughts come from the heart and emotions come from the kidneys? Yet "psychologists" say these come from electric impulses and chemical reactions in the brain. Clearly, psychologists are insane.

Oh I am no psychologist that claims to know everything about human behaviour. No real psychologist should claim that. We do not know all of the secrets on human behaviour yet, but we are getting there. You should remember, we are a relatively young science.

I believe all mean are equally able to be corrupted by uppity women who don't know their place.

One person varies very much from the next, so assuming that men are equal in this seems illogic. One man can be convinced faster than another man, so you expect the first man to be more likely to give in than teh second man. Stubbornness is just one of the aspects that you should consider here.

Actually, that's not what I asked you. You are the one who understood wrong.

You asked both questions. I answered the first, because to me that seemed to be your main question.

Yeah that make sense. This life = ~70 years if you're lucky. Afterlife = forever. Makes so much sense to focus on the now

If you believe in a afterlife, then yes, you make a point. However, I do not believe in after life, even less in a afterlife that works by the rules that you stated.

I know all along. I was just mocking your idiocy

To be honest, it was a stupid mistake, but you are being a jerk now.

Well start today. It's very simple:

Dear Lord Jesus,

I know that I am worthless. I know I am completely pathetic and miserable, dirty, evil, sinful, disgusting. I am the lowest of lows. I am a worm. Less than a worm. I don't even deserve to live. In short, I am exactly as you have created me. Dear wonderful, perfect God, I beg you for forgiveness for having been born imperfectly. I beg and plead down on my knees that I not be sent into a fire to be tormented and tortured forever and ever and ever because a distant ancestor of mine ate the wrong fruit. I ask You, who are perfect in mercy, to please try to find some way of receiving me into Your Eternal Kingdom even though I have disgraced You by not worshiping and adoring you up till now. So I ask that you pour the blood of Your only Son who is Yourself and died temporarily on the cross for me. I understand that this is the only way You could ever forgive me, oh Divine Master. I accept You as my personal savior, from now on I'll do absolutely everything you tell me to do. I'll follow the rules of the Bible to the letter and never sin again. I pray this in the name of You and of Your Father, and of the Holy Spirit who conceived You and is also You. Amen.

If you repeated those words just now, then I tell you, you have been saved! Now all you need to do is get baptized and never sin again, and you're in the clear.

How can I be sorry for the way that I was born. That is beyond by control.
"It is our choices, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
I cannot control how I was born, I can control what I choose to do. Therefore, I cannot be sorry for my abilities (with which I was born).

Now where have I heard that before...?
It had something to do with the 60's... Oh, yes ofcourse: the hippies!
Ha! I knew it...

Riiight, you're saying I am a hippie? Let me summorize: I am a French Swedish guy from the Netherlands who is a hippie and smokes pot? Well at least you got the Netherlands part right.

Indeed friend. Provo. De kabouters. Armand. Don Quishoking. Neerlands Hoop. Good thing they never smoked dope.

You actually seem to have some knowledge about what I take brands of drugs. You want to tell us something?

BTW, I learned today that Ramses has throat cancer. I'm glad the Lord decided to smite him hard after all these years.

Why would you actually be glad about a thing like that? Again with the not helping part.

[Ugly_Kid_Joe]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

Riiight, you're saying I am a hippie? Let me summorize: I am a French Swedish guy from the Netherlands who is a hippie and smokes pot? Well at least you got the Netherlands part right.

Judging by your views and belief: Yes, I am sorry to inform you that you are a hippie. Sad to bring you the bad news.
I doubt that your cannabis plants will grow in hell. So i'm not sure how long ago it is since you were sober... But if you remember what pain felt like, then you can pretty much imagine what hell is going to be like without your daily joint(s).

You could better start praying and do something usefull with your life!
Praise Jesus!!


P.S.
Yes, your description of yourself seems to be quite accurate.

[Wide-Open]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

You actually seem to have some knowledge about what I take brands of drugs. You want to tell us something?

Friend, even you should grasp the concept of "assumption". You seem to think I feel the need to "come out" about drug abuse. You also seem to think that social phenomena in Dutchland from the 6ties and the 7ties are names for reefer.

Wrong on both counts. Now, before I became Saved®, I do admit I was a Godless heathen, and I have sinned (and sinned and sinned). However, I REPENTED, and Jesus washed away my sins with the Blood of the Lamb, PRAISE!

Being Saved® means I can no longer sin, and I surely don't "want to tell us something", especially not to a German shrink like you.

Perhaps I know more about the history of your country than you do...

Why would you actually be glad about a thing like that? Again with the not helping part.

Because yet again it proves that God does exist, and that He's paying attention! Of course, in my old life, I would have felt sorry for him. I used to listen to his records, I used to know about his relation to Liesbeth, and I would think "Oh shit." I would remember the song "Pastorale" (now really...)

And as you seem to think that "Neerlands Hoop" is a brand of dope, here are the intro lyrics for you.

Mijn hemel blauw met gouden harp
Mijn wolkentorens, ijskristallen
Kometen, manen en planeten, aah alles draait om mij
En door de witte wolkenpoort tot diep onder de golven
Boort mijn vuur, mijn liefde, zich in de aarde
En bij het water speelt een kind
En alle schelpen die het vindt gaan blinken als ik lach

Without God on my side, I would feel infinitely sad.

But I don't HAVE to feel that way anymore, as I realize the Lord provides. Without Him, the accident would be horrific, and beyond comprehension. I would be mortified, and shocked. I would read Bas Heijne to come to grips with the facts, and I would FAIL! (In case you only read the Televaag: Bas is a journalist for NRC)

But with Him, it all makes sense.

Pascal's wager aside (you seem to think that no True Christian knows about this secular stuff, and that you are the first to throw it in our faces): how many guilders do you want to bet that priests and pastors (even from unapproved cults ) will say "The Lord works in mysterious ways" to their congregation in the coming weeks? You seem to think we are fundies - and rightfully so, how can one not be a fundamentalist when you are praising the Lord! - but isn't that exactly what oeucemenists and other false christians will be saying in your Nieuwe Kerk's and what have you? Isn't that what Balkenende would say (and no, that's not a reference to Harry Potter - you seem a bit obsessed with him. )

Without God, Apeldoorn and Ramses would be horrific tragedies. With Him, it becomes logical, it becomes a plan.

Maybe you did study shrinkology in your VMBO days, but you surely lack the ability to read what we are saying, and you definitely fail to understand what motivates us. Cognitive dissonance perhaps?

[Seraph]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

My word, but you're confused. I think you've proved my point. The chicken farmer obviously isn't interested in whether the chickens understand it or whether it's logical to them, since he isn't reasoning with them; he just gets them to do what he wants. So it is with God: He doesn't care whether we understand His will or whether it's logical to us. In fact, very often, we don't, and it isn't, but that isn't God's problem.

Two things. 1) The chicken farmer has to adapt to the level of the chickens. If he stays at his own level, he would talk to the chickens, trying to make them understand his will with words that chickens do not understand. That would be silly.
2) Chickens and humans are not the same. Humans have conciousness, chickens do not.
Besides, if your God does not consider that his problem, he does not seem a good God to me, and I refuse to follow his will.

[QUOTE=Heathen_Basher;321925]Because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, of course.
Why should a whole world have to pay for the mistakes of two people? Does that seem fair to you?

Do you have any Bible verses to suggest we have to help mourning families?

You said that all the actions of True Christians are altruistic. Yet I find a disrespectfull topic about that tragedy of last week. That is not altruism.

Aha, so you admit that psychology is a load of crock!

No I did not. I said that we do not have all the answers yet.

All men would die if you cut off their oxygen supply. All men will go to hell if they become subordinate to women.

The first one is a fact, the second one is just your belief of the afterlife.

You're still a liar.

No, you just did not understand me.

Well, at least you admit you're stupid.

No, I said that the mistake is stupid. "Judge the action, not the person"

I looked up on google where you got that quote. What is this obsession of your with Harry Potter?! Are you a Satanist?

Believe it or not, but I actually liked the books. The meant a lot to me and made me see the world in new, better, ways.
FYI: No i am not a wizard or anything, neither have I ever tried to perform magic. I do not believe that those things can happen in our world, but that does not mean I can enjoy a good book about the subject. It is called fantasy

Judging by your views and belief: Yes, I am sorry to inform you that you are a hippie. Sad to bring you the bad news.
I doubt that your cannabis plants will grow in hell. So i'm not sure how long ago it is since you were sober... But if you remember what pain felt like, then you can pretty much imagine what hell is going to be like without your daily joint(s).

Right... I never smoked a joint, let alone I have a daily one.

You could better start praying and do something usefull with your life!
Praise Jesus!!

I already think that I do something useful with my life. Most important in my life is that I try to help those people who ask me for help. If that is not good enough for Jesus, then too bad.

P.S.
Yes, your description of yourself seems to be quite accurate.

Coming from somebody who has never seen me, nor knows anything about me, that seems so reliable

Friend, even you should grasp the concept of "assumption". You seem to think I feel the need to "come out" about drug abuse. You also seem to think that social phenomena in Dutchland from the 6ties and the 7ties are names for reefer.

Wrong on both counts. Now, before I became Saved®, I do admit I was a Godless heathen, and I have sinned (and sinned and sinned). However, I REPENTED, and Jesus washed away my sins with the Blood of the Lamb, PRAISE!

Being Saved® means I can no longer sin, and I surely don't "want to tell us something", especially not to a German shrink like you.

Perhaps I know more about the history of your country than you do...



Because yet again it proves that God does exist, and that He's paying attention! Of course, in my old life, I would have felt sorry for him. I used to listen to his records, I used to know about his relation to Liesbeth, and I would think "Oh shit." I would remember the song "Pastorale" (now really...)

And as you seem to think that "Neerlands Hoop" is a brand of dope, here are the intro lyrics for you.

Mijn hemel blauw met gouden harp
Mijn wolkentorens, ijskristallen
Kometen, manen en planeten, aah alles draait om mij
En door de witte wolkenpoort tot diep onder de golven
Boort mijn vuur, mijn liefde, zich in de aarde
En bij het water speelt een kind
En alle schelpen die het vindt gaan blinken als ik lach

Without God on my side, I would feel infinitely sad.

But I don't HAVE to feel that way anymore, as I realize the Lord provides. Without Him, the accident would be horrific, and beyond comprehension. I would be mortified, and shocked. I would read Bas Heijne to come to grips with the facts, and I would FAIL! (In case you only read the Televaag: Bas is a journalist for NRC)

But with Him, it all makes sense.

Pascal's wager aside (you seem to think that no True Christian knows about this secular stuff, and that you are the first to throw it in our faces): how many guilders do you want to bet that priests and pastors (even from unapproved cults ) will say "The Lord works in mysterious ways" to their congregation in the coming weeks? You seem to think we are fundies - and rightfully so, how can one not be a fundamentalist when you are praising the Lord! - but isn't that exactly what oeucemenists and other false christians will be saying in your Nieuwe Kerk's and what have you? Is't that what Balkenende would say (and no, that's not a reference to Harry Potter - you seem a bit obsessed with him. )

Without God, Apeldoorn and Ramses would be horrific tragedies. With Him, it becomes logical, it becomes a plan.

Maybe you did study shrinkology in your VMBO days, but you surely lack the ability to read what we are saying, and you definitely fail to understand what motivates us. Cognitive dissonance perhaps?

Now we are finally getting somewhere. You use your God to make sense of the world, do you not? That makes you as human as everybody else. True, without God, those situations are just horrible. That one man would be able to actually kill, is something that I cannot imagine to do myself.
That is why psychology fascinates me. By studying that and looking at what drives people, I can more and more how people came to their actions. That does not mean I approve them, only that the act seems less random to me than at first sight.
So in essence, we do not differ that much: we all try to understand the world by using the theories we believe in.

By the way: Dutchland? And you're telling me off for not knowing stuff that is from before my time...

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

You said that all the actions of True Christians are altruistic. Yet I find a disrespectfull topic about that tragedy of last week. That is not altruism.

1Th:2:4: But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts


or in Belgian


Wij spreken als boodschappers van God. Hij heeft het ons toevertrouwd de waarheid bekend te maken. Wij vertellen de mensen niet wat zij graag willen horen, maar wat God ons opdraagt. Want Hij ziet wat in ons omgaat.

PS You will see that Belgian has a lot more words, that is because it is foreign and it is only an approximation of God's Word.

[Seraph]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

1Th:2:4: But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts


or in Belgian


Wij spreken als boodschappers van God. Hij heeft het ons toevertrouwd de waarheid bekend te maken. Wij vertellen de mensen niet wat zij graag willen horen, maar wat God ons opdraagt. Want Hij ziet wat in ons omgaat.

Even if what you say is true, your timing is absolutely wrong. These people just lost a loved one. The last thing that you should do is then tell them that they deserved what was coming, and that they should repend. You know what happens then? Those people feel outraged by your words and alienate themselves more and more from you. Basicly, by trying to "help" them, you are driving them away.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

Even if what you say is true, your timing is absolutely wrong. These people just lost a loved one. The last thing that you should do is then tell them that they deserved what was coming, and that they should repend. You know what happens then? Those people feel outraged by your words and alienate themselves more and more from you. Basicly, by trying to "help" them, you are driving them away.

Read it! It is NOT a question of helping them over one small incident - it is helping them to become True Christians(tm) by saving their souls through the Word of God.

[Seraph]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

Read it! It is NOT a question of helping them over one small incident - it is helping them to become True Christians™ by saving their souls through the Word of God.

And by trying to convince that to them when they are dealing with that small incident (really? You think that losing a loved one in such a horrible assault is a small incident? ) you're driving them further away from actually believing you. You drive them away from you by neglecting their feelings and thinking that you hold all the answers and people will follow you after you tell them.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

And by trying to convince that to them when they are dealing with that small incident (really? You think that losing a loved one in such a horrible assault is a small incident? )

Yes, a small incident - a big incident would be like flooding the World. You will not remember (as I do) the Flood in The Netherlands in 1953, when God showed his displeasure with the Dutch.

you're driving them further away from actually believing you.

I can tell them the Truth or I can tell them lies... what do you want?

You drive them away from you by neglecting their feelings and thinking that you hold all the answers and people will follow you after you tell them.

OK, those who died will all be in Hell because they were not True Christians™ - Do you think that might help?

[Seraph]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

Yes, a small incident - a big incident would be like flooding the World. You will not remember (as I do) the Flood in The Netherlands in 1953, when God showed his displeasure with the Dutch.

Any incident that involves the death of innocent people should not be called small.
Besides, tell those families and friends that have to bury their loved one that it is just a small incident. I don't think that they would agree. Have you ever lost a loved one?

I can tell them the Truth or I can tell them lies... what do you want?

What I want is that you guys respect the death of those people and the suffering of many others. You can actually do that by saying nothing. So you are missing an option.

OK, those who died will all be in Hell because they were not True Christians™ - Do you think that might help?

That is what you believe. You cannot actually prove that those people are in hell. In fact you cannot prove that it exists.

[Seraph]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

God makes up the standards of what is fair, not us. As I told you, you are an evil person and so you cannot see the world properly. Thankfully, even though God cursed the world and sends the vast majority of people to hell, He was merciful enough to sacrifice Himself to Himself in order to save those select few He loves. So how can you say God is unfair?

Because he damned everybody, because of the actions of two people. Children should not be hold responsible for the actions of their parents.

Do you think it would be more helpful to NOT try and save people?

Not at that moment no. People should be given the change to process what has happened, to give their feelings a place. It is not something easy to lose a loved one, so give them a break for some time.

But The Bible says it has all the answers. Why should I trust a group of people who admit they don't know anything instead of a book that says it does?

Thry to learn the difference between anything and everything . And just because it claims that it has all the answers, does not mean it does. What if I wrote a book stating at the first page that everything in there is true, would that make it true? No it would not. Why should the bible be different?

Actually, the first one is just your belief in medical science. The second one is a fact according to the Bible. I see all too clearly how you atheists cling to your false religion of science.

So you do not believe the first fact?

That phrase is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures.

No it does not. But you know what, it does work though. Try it while raising your children

So, you admit that the Harry Potter books try to brainwash its readers into seeing the world in new ways! So much for saying it's just harmless fantasy!

That's what books can do. The bible did it for you. Or are you going to say that reading the bible diod not affect you in any way?

It would be so fantastic when you're writhing in hell along with that witch J.K. Rowling

I'm going to meet her? Cool

[Ugly_Kid_Joe]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

I already think that I do something useful with my life. Most important in my life is that I try to help those people who ask me for help. If that is not good enough for Jesus, then too bad.

Stop thinking. What on earth is more useful than praising Jesus!?
And do you have to be a atheist (or whatever you name yourself while you dont seem to believe in anything but your own opinion) to help people?
I help people while I do not mock God, my LORD, like you are doing.

Coming from somebody who has never seen me, nor knows anything about me, that seems so reliable

I met you here, didnt I? And your posts here tell me quite alot about yourself.
Sure hope you are not getting paranoid from the dope.

I suggest to follow mr. Heathen Basher's advice: Come to Jesus!

[Seraph]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

Well, according the Word of God, the Lord punishes people down to the the third and fourth generation according to the sins of their forefathers. However, He BLESSES the descendants of good people for a THOUSAND generations. So as you can see, God is really superlatively merciful

So how come he still has a grudge for what Adam and Eve did? Even you would see that that is more that four generations ago.

Yeah, and if they have a heart attack or something while they are "processing" they get to go to hell along with their evil dead relatives.

Stop saying that all you believe is the truth. I do not care that you believe it (that is really your choice), but do not go around hurting people with it.

The Bible is different because God wrote it. Are you God? Nope!

Some people who thought they herd what God said wrote it. Maybe they thought they were God

A person could live without air if God let them.

Have you ever seen a person do that?

I won't be doing that, as I do not plan on hating my children like you.

Why should I hate you children? I do not know them XD.
As for me, I do not hate children. Instead of saying bad things about themselves, I make clear that their behaviour is wrong and they should change them. In your terms: I would not hate them, only their behaviour. And people can change their behaviour.

Yes, and she'll be laughing at how easily she was able to deceive you.

Come to Jesus, Seraph! I know He's hard to see in such a wicked nation as Holland (and Gomorrah?) but He's there!

Right, now you are making it sound like she was in league with the Devil all the time...
Maybe He is there, maybe not, but if He does, he would be a far more responsible God than your God.

Stop thinking. What on earth is more useful than praising Jesus!?

Helping others. Being there for the people that I love and the people that ask for my help. Having a good life, actually making a difference, enjoying the things that I have. Being around family and friends. Heck, even lying in the grass on a sunny day and reading a good book, like The amber Spyglass.

And do you have to be a atheist (or whatever you name yourself while you dont seem to believe in anything but your own opinion) to help people?
I help people while I do not mock God, my LORD, like you are doing.

No you do not have to be an atheist. However, what you say is helping in your eyes is in fact hurting them. Your hurting their feelings, and refuse to respect their loss. Now do not go tell me that you are helping them see God, because it is not.You think that, but you are not right.

I met you here, didnt I? And your posts here tell me quite alot about yourself.
Sure hope you are not getting paranoid from the dope.

I suggest to follow mr. Heathen Basher's advice: Come to Jesus!

And you actually think that you know everything about me from here? Friend, do not be simple. I do not claim that I know you, and neither should you do about me. There is far more than that you read here.

[Seraph]

Re: Last warning for Swedish Queen from Baby Jesus!

That's a special case. In that case God cursed the rest of their descendants for all time, it says so clearly in Genesis. However, you are forgetting that God in His infinite mercy decided four thousand years after that incident to kill His only Son who was Himself to save those select few He loves!

Yeah, I refuse to believe that there is a God that works that way. If there is, he is not a very good God to me, and I refuse to follow his ways.

Why don't YOU stop saying that all you believe is the truth. I don't care that You believe it (since God makes you choose that), but do not go around letting people slip into Satan's arms with it.

I actually never said that all i believe is the truth. For me it makes far more sense that the jibberish that you tell me.

No, the writers of the Bible never claim to be God. Have you ever even touched a Bible?

But you just said that God wrote the bible. So God does not claim to be God? If he doesn't believe it, why should I?

No, but God can do anything. I mean, He let Daniel's friends survive after being thrown into a fiery furnace. While the clear miracle is that they didn't get burned, you have to also consider that they didn't suffocate in there either.

And now a case that actually happened in our time. Because, if it did not make this clear, I do not believe everything that is told in the bible.

Your sissy child-rearing will leave your kids without a moral compass. They'll never know right or wrong because they'll think the only punishment of doing bad is having a good talking to from the old man. They'll grow up to be criminals, and they'll die and go to hell. Not only that, but God will send you to hell for having done that to your kids.

So you are saying that children who are raised in an authoritative manner have 100% change of becoming criminals? Please show my the study to support that claim. Because I can tell you now, you won't find one that has been published in a scientific journal.

[Right, now you are making it sound like she was in league with the Devil all the time...

She was.

Sure she was...Apart from the fact that the Devil is just a imaginative figure, like God and Harry Potter.

Again, you know this how?

By observation of how things work in the world.