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Re: True Christians are Perfect!
Very well said.
Originally posted by Sword of the Spirit
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I'll take you on right here. However, I'll do it in a respectful way, without throwing insult or trying to cause disrespect. I expect the same, if you really are Christians.
If you've ever sinned, raise your hand. If anyone is not raising their hand, you have just lied, and lying would be a sin, therefore proving my point. It is nearly impossible to never have sinned.
Here's one for the record. Jesus said that anyone who was mad at his brother had already committed murder. Let me simplify this: If you've ever been aggressively angry or murderous to anyone; gays, muslims, mormons, whatever, you've sinned. It is impossible for someone to never sin.
To say that you are "without sin" makes you equal with God. That is blasphemy. There is not one person on this Earth who has ever sinned, and there is not one person that Jesus doesn't want to save. Remember the verse John 8:7? The verses after that state that the people began to leave, the older ones first (the wisest of the people), until all were gone. Keep in mind these are the people that studied the scriptures (The Bible) intently, and kept it down to the letter. I hope this sounds painfully familiar.
As for your actual beliefs, you can't possibly keep the scripture down to the letter, because there would be a great deal less people in the United States. Here's a question for you; if God said not to murder, why did He have the Israelites kill hundreds of thousands of people? And don't simply say that "He wanted to". That won't suffice, because the answer is a fall-back, and isn't actually a retort.
I came across a disturbing thread while I was reading on this site. It stated that you people believe that if a woman is raped, that she MUST marry her rapist. This is one of your many examples of things in the Bible that were written for a certain time, and apply to a certain time. Another example is that women must remain silent in the churches. Why, I'll explain that next.
Back in the time when the law "a rapist must marry his victim", women were almost exclusively valued based on their virginity. All of the virgins back then would have been unmarried, so the rape of one would be the rape of the unmarried. In this time, if a woman was a non-virgin and unmarried, her life would be ruined, as no man would marry a woman who was not a virgin, and women did not work in that time. By having a rapist marry his victim, it would ensure that the victim was taken care of in life, although it is unfortunate.
Before you spout at me, consider this; Imagine I, or even worse, a Muslim raped your daughter. Unless you are hypocrites, you would then force your daughter to marry her rapist, correct? Think about this for a moment. What would become of your daughter? Most likely she would become abused, depressed, and would drift from God. This would be an absolutely horrible thing, and it implies that if I want to marry a women, I simply have to rape her, because apparently 'it isn't the rapist's fault, the woman shouldn't have presented herself like that'. Say you wouldn't let her? That would be a double standard, meaning that you would be hypocritical.
As for the women remaining silent in the churches, again we must think as to the setting. Back in the days of Paul, women were often uneducated and weren't trained for intelligent discussion. Also, the churches were divided up with men on one half, and women on the other. Paul wrote this because women were speaking up in the middle of service (which were crudely organized) and spouting the first thing that woman had on her mind. This disrupted others and caused chaos. Likewise 'they should ask there own husbands at home', was dated because since the churches were divided up male/female, the uneducated women would rush over to their husband's every time they had a question that they wanted answered, thus creating more confusion.
I think the biggest issue lies in the question of 'why' to each one of God's commands. He gives them to us for a reason, not just because he felt like it. He wants us to live in harmony with each other, and these laws simply help out. Many of the laws in Leviticus actually were scientifically proven to have been healthier in that time period. If we ask "Why should we not murder" we will find an answer that is somewhat like; because what makes you above your fellow man that God loves?
Note: Although I may have pointed a few things out, I didn't call names, make slurs or preform any ad hominem attacks. I expect the same, as it says in the scripture.
SWORD OF THE SPIRIT
If you've ever sinned, raise your hand. If anyone is not raising their hand, you have just lied, and lying would be a sin, therefore proving my point. It is nearly impossible to never have sinned.
Here's one for the record. Jesus said that anyone who was mad at his brother had already committed murder. Let me simplify this: If you've ever been aggressively angry or murderous to anyone; gays, muslims, mormons, whatever, you've sinned. It is impossible for someone to never sin.
To say that you are "without sin" makes you equal with God. That is blasphemy. There is not one person on this Earth who has ever sinned, and there is not one person that Jesus doesn't want to save. Remember the verse John 8:7? The verses after that state that the people began to leave, the older ones first (the wisest of the people), until all were gone. Keep in mind these are the people that studied the scriptures (The Bible) intently, and kept it down to the letter. I hope this sounds painfully familiar.
As for your actual beliefs, you can't possibly keep the scripture down to the letter, because there would be a great deal less people in the United States. Here's a question for you; if God said not to murder, why did He have the Israelites kill hundreds of thousands of people? And don't simply say that "He wanted to". That won't suffice, because the answer is a fall-back, and isn't actually a retort.
I came across a disturbing thread while I was reading on this site. It stated that you people believe that if a woman is raped, that she MUST marry her rapist. This is one of your many examples of things in the Bible that were written for a certain time, and apply to a certain time. Another example is that women must remain silent in the churches. Why, I'll explain that next.
Back in the time when the law "a rapist must marry his victim", women were almost exclusively valued based on their virginity. All of the virgins back then would have been unmarried, so the rape of one would be the rape of the unmarried. In this time, if a woman was a non-virgin and unmarried, her life would be ruined, as no man would marry a woman who was not a virgin, and women did not work in that time. By having a rapist marry his victim, it would ensure that the victim was taken care of in life, although it is unfortunate.
Before you spout at me, consider this; Imagine I, or even worse, a Muslim raped your daughter. Unless you are hypocrites, you would then force your daughter to marry her rapist, correct? Think about this for a moment. What would become of your daughter? Most likely she would become abused, depressed, and would drift from God. This would be an absolutely horrible thing, and it implies that if I want to marry a women, I simply have to rape her, because apparently 'it isn't the rapist's fault, the woman shouldn't have presented herself like that'. Say you wouldn't let her? That would be a double standard, meaning that you would be hypocritical.
As for the women remaining silent in the churches, again we must think as to the setting. Back in the days of Paul, women were often uneducated and weren't trained for intelligent discussion. Also, the churches were divided up with men on one half, and women on the other. Paul wrote this because women were speaking up in the middle of service (which were crudely organized) and spouting the first thing that woman had on her mind. This disrupted others and caused chaos. Likewise 'they should ask there own husbands at home', was dated because since the churches were divided up male/female, the uneducated women would rush over to their husband's every time they had a question that they wanted answered, thus creating more confusion.
I think the biggest issue lies in the question of 'why' to each one of God's commands. He gives them to us for a reason, not just because he felt like it. He wants us to live in harmony with each other, and these laws simply help out. Many of the laws in Leviticus actually were scientifically proven to have been healthier in that time period. If we ask "Why should we not murder" we will find an answer that is somewhat like; because what makes you above your fellow man that God loves?
Note: Although I may have pointed a few things out, I didn't call names, make slurs or preform any ad hominem attacks. I expect the same, as it says in the scripture.
SWORD OF THE SPIRIT
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