How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

[Pim Pendergast]

"(T)he only proof for the existence of God is that without God you couldn't prove anything." – Cornelius van Til

God wants you to “be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you” (1 Pet 3:15). Answering questions from atheists can be very difficult, so it’s important for the Christian to be adequately trained in apologetics. Presuppositionalism offers a Biblically-based – and probably the easiest – approach to defending your faith.There are two foundational presuppositions.

First, we presuppose the existence of the God of the Bible. The atheist knows God exists. God has clearly revealed Himself through nature (Rom 1:18-32; Ps 19:1). So don’t waste your time trying to prove God’s existence or defining what you mean by “God.”

Second, the Christian presupposes that God is the source of truth and the only way we can know what’s true is through the Bible. There is no such thing as brute fact. That is to say, nothing is true in and of itself. A thing is true because God makes it true. All the evidence for evolution is untrue because God hasn’t made it true. But how do we know the Bible is the Word of God? Because it tells us (2 Tim 3:16). And why should we believe the Bible? Because it’s infallible (Jn 17:17b). And why is it infallible? Because it is the Word of God. One of the most common atheist criticisms is that Christianity is founded on circular reasoning. And they’re right! (It will really take the wind out of their sails if you just admit it.)

Christianity isn’t rational. It’s impossible to prove the claims of the Bible rationally, and you shouldn’t try (1 Cor 1:18; 2:1). You’ll only end up looking foolish. For example, Paul E. Little believed the empty tomb was proof of Jesus’ resurrection. But just because the Bible says Jesus’ disciples found His tomb empty doesn’t prove He rose from the dead.

You’re probably wondering by now how you can possibly use presuppositionalism to defend your faith. So far all we’ve done is concede that Christianity isn’t rational. But the beauty of presuppositional apologetics is that it turns the tables on the atheist. It is defence in the form of attack. The next step is to show the atheist that his beliefs are just as irrational as yours. If you do this successfully, you can remove any excuses he has for denying God and, Lord willing, lead him to Christ.

The atheist relies on himself to be the arbiter of right and wrong, truth and falsehood. The trick is getting him to admit it. He will try to say he relies on evidence to support his belief that God doesn’t exist. But keep asking him, “Why?” Why does he believe the evidence? If he is honest, he must eventually concede that he believes the evidence because he has decided it’s true. He believes there is no God because that is what the evidence tells him and he believes the evidence because he has decided it’s true. This is circular reasoning. If you can make the atheist see this, you have leveled the playing field.

The next step is to ask the atheist if he is always right. Unless he’s completely arrogant, he will admit he’s sometimes wrong. The atheist’s position is therefore weaker than the Christian’s, for the Bible is never wrong. Because there is no need to establish the existence of the God of the Bible, you may then skip straight to sharing the Gospel with the atheist, and he will have no reason to reject it. But don’t be disappointed if he does. “For many are called, but few are chosen” (Mat 22:14). At least you will have exposed atheism for the folly it is (1 Cor 1:27).

Here is an example of how a discussion with an atheist might go if you use a presuppositional approach.*

Atheist: “Why do you believe in God?”

Christian: “Because God has revealed Himself clearly through creation.”

Atheist: “But if we look at nature closely we see evidence for evolution, not design.”

Christian: “Evolution is just an excuse to deny the existence of God. The Bible tells us God created everything in six 24-hour days 6,000 years ago.”

Atheist: “How can you believe the Bible? It’s just a collection of old myths.”

Christian: “Because the Bible is God’s Word.”

Atheist: “How do you know that?”

Christian: “Because Second Timothy three verse sixteen says, ‘All Scripture is given by inspiration of God.’”

Atheist: “How can you be sure there aren’t any mistakes in the Bible?”

Christian: “The Bible is infallible. In John seventeen verse seventeen, Jesus tells us God’s Word is truth.”

Atheist: “What makes the Bible infallible? Aren’t there lots of contradictions? Wouldn’t many mistakes have crept in over the years?”

Christian: “God has promised to preserve His Word throughout all generations.”

Atheist: “You’re going round in circles. You’re begging the question. That’s a logical fallacy.”

Christian: “I know.”

Atheist: [Stunned silence.]

Christian: “Christianity isn’t rational. I’m not going to try to prove anything to you. I would just like to ask you a few questions, if I may. You’re an atheist, right?”

Atheist: “Yes.”

Christian: “So you believe God doesn’t exist and everything came from nothing and we evolved from monkeys and global warming is real?”

Atheist: “Naturally.”

Christian: “Why do you believe all this?”

Atheist: “Well, there’s mountains of evidence to support my beliefs.”

Christian: “Why do you believe the evidence?”

[Ask “why” as many times as you need to. For example:

Atheist: “Well, it comes from reliable sources. Scientists have gathered the information over many years.”

Christian: “Why do you believe the scientists?”]

Atheist: “Well, I guess I believe the evidence because common sense tells me it sounds logical. Some things, like transitional fossils, I have seen in museums with my own eyes.”

Christian: “So you ultimately decide what’s true?”

Atheist: “I guess so.”

Christian: “So let me get this straight. You believe God doesn’t exist because that’s what the evidence tells you, and you believe the evidence because you’ve decided it’s true. That is also circular reasoning. Tell me, are you always right?”

Atheist: “Of course not. Everyone makes mistakes now and again.”

Christian: “That’s where you and I differ. I don’t rely on myself to determine the truth; I rely on the Bible, and the Bible is always right.”

Atheist: [Reluctantly] “All right. You’ve made your point. I can see I no longer have an adequate excuse to keep running away from God. I suppose I’ve always known deep down that the God of the Bible exists, but I didn’t want to give up my sinful lifestyle. Tell me, what must I do to get right with God?”

Presuppositionalism can be used against any false belief system, not just atheism. What makes Christians unique is that we rely on the Bible to determine truth. Agnostics, buddhists, hindus, muslims, mormons and joos rely on themselves to determine truth. I hope you will all find presuppositional apologetics a useful tool in your quest to preach the Gospel to every creature (Mk 16:15).

__________________________________________________

* Your discussion with an atheist may not go this smoothly. The atheist may not say what you want him to say. He may keep giving the wrong answers. If he asks a question you don’t know the answer to, just stick to your guns.

[Paragon of virtue]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

It's always good to know why you believe what you believe. We don't know right or wrong--truth or falsehood--apart from the word of God. If we really did say that every man makes his own truth, then what right do we have to fill up the prisons? Some may argue that society as a whole has created the rules for the betterment of the majority. But, is the majority always right? Can the majority be right at all without God? and who is to say any way? This is why the country has gone to Hell in a hand basket. We need the Bible. It's been said by better men than me that all men have a God shaped hole in their hearts that only God can fill. I believe the word of God and will be quick to stand up for it!

[Hatchet the Jap]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

I admire that you put this thread in a formal and non-hateful wording. This makes it way easier for us to understand.
However, you typed in the conversation in a Christian point of view. In another conversation between an atheist and a Christian (from my point of view) will be that the atheist will support his/her own arguments with supporting evidence from scientific sources. The 'ask why repeatedly' tactic in your example of conversation is actually a pretty cheap (and pretty amusing if you use it in pranks) tactic in confusing the other person.
I would like to comment on the conversation example that you supplied.
Firstly, the conversation itself is just one possible outcome from the numerous possibilities of the conversation, which might include mass usage of Ad Hominem etc.
The Christian's repeat 'why' questions to the atheist in the second half of the conversation is in itself an Argument from Personal Incredulity. If you do not understand or comprehend evolution, that doesn't mean that it is false.
Again, I have to state that the conversation outcome is an example from many possible outcomes. A more knowing atheist would more likely put in scientific facts and sources in his arguments, making the Christian lose the debate.
You claim the Bible to be always right, thus everything else is wrong. Atheists can do the same by claiming science to be always right, thus everything else is wrong. I believe this is a major source of conflicts between Christians and atheists.
From what I have actually seen and experienced on this forum, this is my guess on how most atheist-Christian conversations/debates end up: Ad Hominem. I do not want this thread to end up like this.
Please note that I am not an anti-theist. In fact, I respect Christianity and you people for your loyalty to your religion.
Thank you for your kind attention.

[Paragon of virtue]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

@ the Hell bound atheist. Okay, lets say for the sake of argument that I do understand EVILution as a theory--I happen to find it complete nonsense, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand it. Where do you believe--through scientific fact alone--the world, life, infinite universes come from? At some point you must get something from nothing. You believe in the "big bang". Where did it come from? It was always there? The potential was always there? It's still something from nothing. I believe in a God that created the universe and everything in it. This is not rational. It is outside of nature. I believe it and I can believe it and still be true to my worldview. At some point you atheists must say that something came from nothing and that doesn't just happen naturally. You don't believe that something can come from nothing, so your worldview must ultimately fall apart--or else, as I expect you and your ilk will use some kind of double speak to help rationalize the sandcastle that you've built.

[Hatchet the Jap]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

@ the Hell bound atheist. Okay, lets say for the sake of argument that I do understand EVILution as a theory--I happen to find it complete nonsense, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand it. Where do you believe--through scientific fact alone--the world, life, infinite universes come from? At some point you must get something from nothing. You believe in the "big bang". Where did it come from? It was always there? The potential was always there? It's still something from nothing. I believe in a God that created the universe and everything in it. This is not rational. It is outside of nature. I believe it and I can believe it and still be true to my worldview. At some point you atheists must say that something came from nothing and that doesn't just happen naturally. You don't believe that something can come from nothing, so your worldview must ultimately fall apart--or else, as I expect you and your ilk will use some kind of double speak to help rationalize the sandcastle that you've built.

You do know there's this huge difference between 'currently unexplained' and 'unexplainable'.
Please, you're just pulling us into a fight, rather than a sensible debate.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

I admire that you put this thread in a formal and non-hateful wording. This makes it way easier for us to understand.
However, you typed in the conversation in a Christian point of view. In another conversation between an atheist and a Christian (from my point of view) will be that the atheist will support his/her own arguments with supporting evidence from scientific sources. The 'ask why repeatedly' tactic in your example of conversation is actually a pretty cheap (and pretty amusing if you use it in pranks) tactic in confusing the other person.
I would like to comment on the conversation example that you supplied.
Firstly, the conversation itself is just one possible outcome from the numerous possibilities of the conversation, which might include mass usage of Ad Hominem etc.
The Christian's repeat 'why' questions to the atheist in the second half of the conversation is in itself an Argument from Personal Incredulity. If you do not understand or comprehend evolution, that doesn't mean that it is false.
Again, I have to state that the conversation outcome is an example from many possible outcomes. A more knowing atheist would more likely put in scientific facts and sources in his arguments, making the Christian lose the debate.
You claim the Bible to be always right, thus everything else is wrong. Atheists can do the same by claiming science to be always right, thus everything else is wrong. I believe this is a major source of conflicts between Christians and atheists.
From what I have actually seen and experienced on this forum, this is my guess on how most atheist-Christian conversations/debates end up: Ad Hominem. I do not want this thread to end up like this.
Please note that I am not an anti-theist. In fact, I respect Christianity and you people for your loyalty to your religion.
Thank you for your kind attention.

The example I provided was highly simplified, and there could be other outcomes. But it is a best-case scenario. It is how things would turn out if the atheist answered every question honestly. I always like to remember when I'm arguing with atheists that they have a corrupt mind (Rom 1:28), so even when they're presented with the truth, they may not be able to understand or accept it. So it's not my fault if things don't go the way I planned.

The "ask why" tactic isn't so much an argument from incredulity but an attempt to force the atheist to give the answer you want to hear. But there is no way the Christian can lose the debate, however much evidence the atheist provides. Evidence isn't true unless God makes it true. God is the source of all truth and the only way of knowing truth is through the Bible. I suppose in theory God could decide to make things true in and of themselves, but that would be confusing.

It is unfortunate how atheists always resort to insults whenever they are losing a debate with a Christian. But you can't expect any better of atheists. The Bible says they are "filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful" (Rom 1:29-31). It's up to the Christian to be the bigger man.

Tell us briefly how you would have answered the Christian's questions.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

The Christian's repeat 'why' questions to the atheist in the second half of the conversation is in itself an Argument from Personal Incredulity. If you do not understand or comprehend evolution, that doesn't mean that it is false.

What you seem to be missing, dear, is that if the atheist makes a claim (ie, evolution is the Truth©), the burden of proof is upon him. He cannot turn around and demand his argument be accepted as credible simply because the illogical fallacy of argument from personal incredulity exists.

You claim the Bible to be always right, thus everything else is wrong. Atheists can do the same by claiming science to be always right, thus everything else is wrong. I believe this is a major source of conflicts between Christians and atheists.

Again, the burden of proof is upon the person making the claim. Claiming science is always right is a loosing proposition. There are simply too many well-known scientific "facts" that have been determined to be wrong. The Holy Bible, on the other hand, has a 100% track record of being Truthful.

Please note that I am not an anti-theist. In fact, I respect Christianity and you people for your loyalty to your religion.

Sure, that's what they all say. Then one day they start to think about this belief system they have always assumed is benign even if it is incorrect. They start wondering if children being seriously hurt or killed in exorcisms, or babies being burned alive for being suspected antichrists are really just an unfortunate misunderstanding, or if they are the practical application of a sincere belief. Then they start questioning exorcisms altogether before feeling anger whenever the idea of Spiritual Warfare is presented as a Reality. You'll probably find resources like this that put a negative spin on irrational-but-true-beliefs. Sure, you're not an anti-theist yet, but if you don't watch your heart and soul, the LORD will let you revel in your sinful ways. The only option then is eternal Hell.

Or you could open your heart and mind to the possibility that Jesus really does exist. Open your heart and mind to the possibility that Spiritual Warfare is a Reality. Open your heart and mind to the possibility that Sin really does affect behavior in much the same way magnetism affects iron. Open your heart and mind to the possibility that because you are not always right, you cannot be trusted to know when you are right. Open your heart and mind to the possibility that the LORD is Sovereign, and that God is good all the time. All the time, God is good!

\0/

[Elijah Mee, PhD]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

Just wanted to say that I love this topic. Your understanding and presentation of the issues is sublime!

[TheMasterofSwig]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

In all honesty with bias aside, the responses on this thread directed toward the atheist are plain rude and contradictory. He shared his beliefs politely and normally and attempted to defend his position as others did, but replies like

"It is unfortunate how atheists always resort to insults whenever they are losing a debate with a Christian. But you can't expect any better of atheists. The Bible says they are "filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful" (Rom 1:29-31). It's up to the Christian to be the bigger man."

make me lose faith in people. You're claiming that atheists resort to insulting people when no insult was made towards you and your beliefs and then turn around and tell him that he's filled with numerous negative attributes.

With bias now, I will respond to you as you responded to the atheist. @Time Wasting and Utterly Hopeless Christians This whole belief system based on one mere book is utterly unsupportable and just wrong. You live your lives based on this novel of morals without any proof. I understand some people just can't change and are wired to believe in what they believe and I understand that, but saying that everything else is wrong and what you believe in is correct just because some unproven god created it AND using that unproven god as evidence that the fictitious novel is the whole truth is just wrong. Believe what you want, but stop imposing it on others and moreover, stop contradicting yourself. It just makes you seem ignorant and stupid.

[Jedediah]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

In all honesty with bias aside, the responses on this thread directed toward the atheist are plain rude and contradictory.

How is it rude to provide someone with the information they need to make something worthwhile of their lives and have their eternal souls saved in the process? Wouldn't the rude thing be to just ignore their desperate cries for attention and let them continue to wallow in sin, perversion, and depredation? How is it contradictory when every piece of advice, rebuke, or exhortation is based in the Holy Bible?

If you ask me, you are the rude one. It is you who were born into sin and continued to sin, making it necessary for Jesus to die (temporarily) on that cross almost 2000 years ago. And despite His being gracious enough to do that for you - yes you, sinner - you scoff at His generous offer, so full of hate for all that is good and righteous and holy that you pretend God doesn't even exist and that Jesus' sacrifice amounts to nothing more than a fable - a product of its time and place, some hackneyed campfire yarn spun up by oppressed, superstitious Iron Age desert dwellers who needed to take their minds of the brutality of their lives under Roman occupation and create false hope since life sure couldn't be counted on to give them anything real to look forward to. How dare you.

You live your lives based on this novel of morals without any proof.

Proof is all around you, friend. In fact, it's so self-evident, it's not even worth discussing. It's just there for all to see. In fact, it's not even possible to be unaware of God's existence. If you claim otherwise, you are merely suppressing the Truth inside you, likely due to the grip you allow Satan to have over you.

Romans 1:20-21
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

I understand some people just can't change and are wired to believe in what they believe and I understand that,

Of course you can change! All you have to do is stop sinning, read the Holy Bible (KJV 1611), and obey and fear the LORD. And if you're a queer (you talk like a queer), you'll need to stop that too. We'd be glad to help you in this endeavor, if you are ready. I think I speak for every True Christian™ here when I say we can never have too many stars in our crowns for when we get to Heaven.

Luke 15:10
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Believe what you want, but stop imposing it on others

Why would we do that, friend? We have a Divine Mandate to impose Christianity on others and to bring all under the dominion of Christ. Who do you think we'll obey - you or God?

II Timothy 4:1-5
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

[Basilissa]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

Believe what you want, but stop imposing it on others and moreover, stop contradicting yourself. It just makes you seem ignorant and stupid.

How the heck are we imposing our views on you, sweetie? Are we doing a crusade on some atheist website? Or maybe it is you who tries to impose your views on us, invading our tranquil Godly corner of the internet?

Which one is it, sweetie?

Also, we do not contradict ourselves. We follow the Bible, and the Bible is not contradictory, honey!

[TheMasterofSwig]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

This has to be one of the most entertaining days of my life. I'm not sure if this whole website is a joke or not, but if it isn't, I'm truly concerned for all of you. Anywho, I think the biggest difference we're experiencing in our beliefs is that I don't believe in what you believe in and I don't accept it as true, therefore what you're telling me and the incentive that you're providing me with is fake.

Furthermore, I didn't post here to "convert you" as you often try to do to nonbelievers. I frankly enjoy having people with this line of belief as it provides entertainment for me. I posted because of your treatment towards those who do not believe in what you do. I'm not coming here to tell you that you're wrong, but to say that the way you're imposing your beliefs is wrong.

Have to say though, this website is so <<inappropriate language removed>> funny. Everything disagreeable is satanic. Truly the purest form of humor.

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

This has to be one of the most entertaining days of my life. I'm not sure if this whole website is a joke or not

*snip*

Do you think Eternal Salvation is a laughing matter?

Do you think I get my giggles by spending pretty much every non-working hour of my life telling people precisely what is in the KJV Bible?



Ask yourself: what POSSIBLE gain is there for me? Serious question.

Yours in Christ,

Zech

[Didymus Much]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

...I frankly enjoy having people with this line of belief as it provides entertainment for me...

So you're OK with people believing that homosexuals, witches, disobedient children, married rape victims, and non-virgin brides (who have been properly paid for) all deserve to DIE, and want those "cherished" beliefs of theirs to be the LAW...

...as long as you get some giggles.

You're one sick puppy.

[Dr Laurence Niles]

Re: How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit

This has to be one of the most entertaining days of my life. I'm not sure if this whole website is a joke or not, but if it isn't, I'm truly concerned for all of you. Anywho, I think the biggest difference we're experiencing in our beliefs is that I don't believe in what you believe in and I don't accept it as true, therefore what you're telling me and the incentive that you're providing me with is fake.

Furthermore, I didn't post here to "convert you" as you often try to do to nonbelievers. I frankly enjoy having people with this line of belief as it provides entertainment for me. I posted because of your treatment towards those who do not believe in what you do. I'm not coming here to tell you that you're wrong, but to say that the way you're imposing your beliefs is wrong.

Have to say though, this website is so <<inappropriate language removed>> funny. Everything disagreeable is satanic. Truly the purest form of humor.

You honestly think the Lake of Fire is a laughing matter?

I guess next you will claim that it's just dandy to be queer all day instead of getting a job?

Where do you get off trampling over the most cherished beliefs of honest True Christians(tm)?

Haters like you make me sick, you are all that's wrong with America and Jesus will see you for what you are: I know I do

All the best.