[AngelOfTheRose]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I thought it was rational to open the KJV 1611 and let God, who created the world, tell me all about the world. Does that mean that he hates me for rational thinking?

You are misconstruing the original post of the thread to further your communist lies (if you are indeed from China). Go back and re-read it fully this time instead of just cherry-picking and skimming across it before opening your mouth. That might save you from looking stupid in the future.

[Mr. Johan Innocent]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I thought it was rational to open the KJV 1611 and let God, who created the world, tell me all about the world. Does that mean that he hates me for rational thinking?

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The reason there is no hell is that when we die we are dead. There is no afterlife, or immortality of the soul. ( this is for the majority of mankind, but there are a few that attain this immortality. )

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The bible says we return to the dust.



Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psalm 146:4 (King James Version)

4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

So this is what death is. Non life.
There is no work or knowledge, or thoughts, in death.
So there is no hell, than the grave of mankind.
This means we are not tormented in death.

Wrong. Matthew 25:46 ->


Matthew 25: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus says the punishment of the wicked is everlasting. The Greek word here is aionian, which is used by Jesus in the verse right before to talk about heaven, eternal life.

And they don't just die, they are tortured, forever.

Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:47

Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (People do not stay in the grave).

John 5:29 and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. (Nobody remains in the grave)

Acts 24:15 and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. (Nobody remains in the grave)

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. (the fire of hell is eternal)

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. (This shows us that death and hell are not the same thing. It would be better if you just die. But Jesus says the wicked go to hell, also)

James 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. (The wicked are punished in fire after they die)

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

The reason there is no hell is that when we die we are dead. There is no afterlife, or immortality of the soul. ( this is for the majority of mankind, but there are a few that attain this immortality. )

Genesis 3:19 (King James Version)

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The bible says we return to the dust.



Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Psalm 146:4 (King James Version)

4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ezekiel 18:4 (King James Version)

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

So this is what death is. Non life.
There is no work or knowledge, or thoughts, in death.
So there is no hell, than the grave of mankind.
This means we are not tormented in death.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Dear friend:

The Bible tells us that plants were created on the third day (Genesis 1:11-13) and that the sun was created on the fourth day (Genesis 1:14-19). What is the maximum amount of time for which plants could have lived without the sun?

Quote:
Now on Hell. There is no place as Hell in the bible. It is just the common grave of mankind. There is no place of torment, there is no hell-fire.
If there is no hell fire, why did Our Lord Jesus Christ refer to it, as recorded in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:47? Also, what is the lake of fire mentioned four times in Revelation?

In Genesis 1:1 in the beginning God created the heavens and earth.

That includes the earth and everything else including the sun, moon and stars.

Many consider the word “day” used in Genesis chapter 1 to mean 24 hours. However, in Genesis 1:5 God himself is said to divide day into a smaller period of time, calling just the light portion “day.” In Genesis 2:4 all the creative periods are called one “day”: “This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day [all six creative periods] that God made earth and heaven.”

So does that mean all the creative days, are to fit in just one day? If you take this literally, then you have a contradiction, and the six creative days were not days at all but just a part of one day. What the bible is telling us that these we ages or time periods when things were done.

Now for the light.

Genesis 1:14 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:


First 'Day'
“‘Let light come to be.’ Then there came to be light. And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day.”—Genesis 1:3,*5.
Of course the sun and moon were in outer space long before this first 'day,' but their light did not reach the surface of the earth for an earthly observer to see. Now, light came to be visible on earth on this first “day,” and the rotating earth began to have alternating days and nights.
The light came in a gradual process, extending over a long period of time, not instantaneously as when you turn on an electric light bulb. The Genesis rendering by translator J. W. Watts reflects this when it says: “And gradually light came into existence.” (A Distinctive Translation of Genesis) This light was from the sun, but the sun itself could not be seen through the overcast. Hence, the light that reached earth was “light diffused,” as indicated by a comment about verse*3 in Rotherham’s Emphasised Bible.—See footnote b for verse*14. This is like a overcast day we get on the earth today.

Now on the Fourth 'Day'
Genesis 1:14-16 (King James Version)

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The Hebrew word there used for “light” is ’ohr, meaning light in a general sense. But on the fourth 'day,' the Hebrew word changes to ma‧’ohr′, which means the source of the light. Rotherham, in a footnote on “Luminaries” in the Emphasised Bible, says: “In ver. 3, ’ôr [’ohr], light diffused.” Then he goes on to show that the Hebrew word ma‧’ohr′ in verse 14 means something “affording light.” On the first “day” diffused light evidently penetrated the swaddling bands, but the sources of that light could not have been seen by an earthly observer because of the cloud layers still enveloping the earth. Now, on this fourth 'day,' things changed.

Now, had there been an earthly observer, he would be able to discern the sun, moon and stars, which would serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. (Genesis 1:14) The moon would indicate the passing of lunar months, and the sun the passing of solar years. The seasons that now “came to be” on this fourth 'day' would no doubt have been much milder than they became later on.—Genesis 1:15; 8:20-22.

So God did not create the sun or moon twice, or did he create the sun after the earth. I was created when he created the heavens and the earth.

I'll get to the Hell, question.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Romans 12:2 (King James Version)

2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Evidence for a Young World


1. Galaxies wind themselves up too fast.

The stars of our own galaxy, the Milky Way, rotate about the galactic center with different speeds, the inner ones rotating faster than the outer ones. The observed rotation speeds are so fast that if our galaxy were more than a few hundred million years old, it would be a featureless disc of stars instead of its present spiral shape.1

2. Too few supernova remnants.

According to astronomical observations, galaxies like our own experience about one supernova (a violently-exploding star) every 25 years. The gas and dust remnants from such explosions (like the Crab Nebula) expand outward rapidly and should remain visible for over a million years. Yet the nearby parts of our galaxy in which we could observe such gas and dust shells contain only about 200 supernova remnants. That number is consistent with only about 7,000 years worth of supernovas.3

3. Comets disintegrate too quickly.

According to evolutionary theory, comets are supposed to be the same age as the solar system, about five billion years. Yet each time a comet orbits close to the sun, it loses so much of its material that it could not survive much longer than about 100,000 years. Many comets have typical ages of less than 10,000 years.4

4. Not enough mud on the sea floor.

Each year, water and winds erode about 20 billion tons of dirt and rock from the continents and deposit it in the ocean.6 This material accumulates as loose sediment on the hard basaltic (lava-formed) rock of the ocean floor. The average depth of all the sediment in the whole ocean is less than 400 meters.7 The main way known to remove the sediment from the ocean floor is by plate tectonic subduction. That is, sea floor slides slowly (a few cm/year) beneath the continents, taking some sediment with it. According to secular scientific literature, that process presently removes only 1 billion tons per year.7 As far as anyone knows, the other 19 billion tons per year simply accumulate. At that rate, erosion would deposit the present mass of sediment in less than 12 million years.

5. Not enough sodium in the sea.


Every year, rivers8 and other sources9 dump over 450 million tons of sodium into the ocean. Only 27% of this sodium manages to get back out of the sea each year.9,10 As far as anyone knows, the remainder simply accumulates in the ocean. If the sea had no sodium to start with, it would have accumulated its present amount in less than 42 million years at today’s input and output rates.10 This is much less than the evolutionary age of the ocean, three billion years. The usual reply to this discrepancy is that past sodium inputs must have been less and outputs greater. However, calculations that are as generous as possible to evolutionary scenarios still give a maximum age of only 62 million years.10

6. The earth’s magnetic field is decaying too fast.

The total energy stored in the earth’s magnetic field (“dipole” and “non-dipole”) is decreasing with a half-life of 1,465 (± 165) years.12 Evolutionary theories explaining this rapid decrease, as well as how the earth could have maintained its magnetic field for billions of years are very complex and inadequate. A much better creationist theory exists. It is straightforward, based on sound physics, and explains many features of the field: its creation, rapid reversals during the Genesis flood, surface intensity decreases and increases until the time of Christ, and a steady decay since then.13 This theory matches paleomagnetic, historic, and present data, most startlingly with evidence for rapid changes.14 The main result is that the field’s total energy (not surface intensity) has always decayed at least as fast as now. At that rate the field could not be more than 20,000 years old.15

7. Many strata are too tightly bent.

In many mountainous areas, strata thousands of feet thick are bent and folded into hairpin shapes. The conventional geologic time scale says these formations were deeply buried and solidified for hundreds of millions of years before they were bent. Yet the folding occurred without cracking, with radii so small that the entire formation had to be still wet and unsolidified when the bending occurred. This implies that the folding occurred less than thousands of years after deposition.16


8. Biological material decays too fast.


Natural radioactivity, mutations, and decay degrade DNA and other biological material rapidly. Measurements of the mutation rate of mitochondrial DNA recently forced researchers to revise the age of “mitochondrial Eve” from a theorized 200,000 years down to possibly as low as 6,000 years.17 DNA experts insist that DNA cannot exist in natural environments longer than 10,000 years, yet intact strands of DNA appear to have been recovered from fossils allegedly much older: Neandertal bones, insects in amber, and even from dinosaur fossils.18

9. Fossil radioactivity shortens geologic “ages” to a few years.

Radiohalos are rings of color formed around microscopic bits of radioactive minerals in rock crystals. They are fossil evidence of radioactive decay.21 “Squashed” Polonium-210 radiohalos indicate that Jurassic, Triassic, and Eocene formations in the Colorado plateau were deposited within months of one another, not hundreds of millions of years apart as required by the conventional time scale.22 “Orphan” Polonium-218 radiohalos, having no evidence of their mother elements, imply accelerated nuclear decay and very rapid formation of associated minerals.23,24

10. Too much helium in minerals.

Uranium and thorium generate helium atoms as they decay to lead. A study published in the Journal of Geophysical Research showed that such helium produced in zircon crystals in deep, hot Precambrian granitic rock has not had time to escape.25 Though the rocks contain 1.5 billion years worth of nuclear decay products, newly-measured rates of helium loss from zircon show that the helium has been leaking for only 6,000 (± 2000) years.26

11. Too much carbon 14 in deep geologic strata.

With their short 5,700-year half-life, no carbon 14 atoms should exist in any carbon older than 250,000 years. Yet it has proven impossible to find any natural source of carbon below Pleistocene (Ice Age) strata that does not contain significant amounts of carbon 14, even though such strata are supposed to be millions or billions of years old. Conventional carbon 14 laboratories have been aware of this anomaly since the early 1980s, have striven to eliminate it, and are unable to account for it. Lately the world’s best such laboratory which has learned during two decades of low-C14 measurements how not to contaminate specimens externally, under contract to creationists, confirmed such observations for coal samples and even for a dozen diamonds, which cannot be contaminated in situ with recent carbon.27 These constitute very strong evidence that the earth is only thousands, not billions, of years old.

12. Not enough Stone Age skeletons.

Evolutionary anthropologists now say that Homo sapiens existed for at least 185,000 years before agriculture began,28 during which time the world population of humans was roughly constant, between one and ten million. All that time they were burying their dead, often with artifacts. By that scenario, they would have buried at least eight billion bodies.29 If the evolutionary time scale is correct, buried bones should be able to last for much longer than 200,000 years, so many of the supposed eight billion stone age skeletons should still be around (and certainly the buried artifacts). Yet only a few thousand have been found. This implies that the Stone Age was much shorter than evolutionists think, perhaps only a few hundred years in many areas.



13. Agriculture is too recent.

The usual evolutionary picture has men existing as hunters and gatherers for 185,000 years during the Stone Age before discovering agriculture less than 10,000 years ago.29 Yet the archaeological evidence shows that Stone Age men were as intelligent as we are. It is very improbable that none of the eight billion people mentioned in item 12 should discover that plants grow from seeds. It is more likely that men were without agriculture for a very short time after the Flood, if at all.31


14. History is too short.

According to evolutionists, Stone Age Homo sapiens existed for 190,000 years before beginning to make written records about 4,000 to 5,000 years ago.

Now on Hell. There is no place as Hell in the bible. It is just the common grave of mankind. There is no place of torment, there is no hell-fire.

Wrong. Matthew 25:46 ->


Matthew 25: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.



Jesus says the punishment of the wicked is everlasting. The Greek word here is aionian, which is used by Jesus in the verse right before to talk about heaven, eternal life.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

If you look at the bible as a big jigsaw puzzle, all the pieces have to fit,to get the whole picture. Just as in a jigsaw puzzle other parts of the puzzle help you to understand where to put other pieces. That is how the bible interprets itself.
So God has made point of telling us that a 'Day' can mean many different time lengths , and is even used as an unspecified length of time, that means we can't say 24 hrs is meant every time.
But the point that life on earth has lasted thousands and thousand of generations and even died out, tells us the earth has been here a long time, by our standards of time. Also earth's geological events would have taken a long time. Certainly more than 7, 24 days.

Dear friend:

The Bible tells us that plants were created on the third day (Genesis 1:11-13) and that the sun was created on the fourth day (Genesis 1:14-19). What is the maximum amount of time for which plants could have lived without the sun?

Now on Hell. There is no place as Hell in the bible. It is just the common grave of mankind. There is no place of torment, there is no hell-fire.

If there is no hell fire, why did Our Lord Jesus Christ refer to it, as recorded in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:47? Also, what is the lake of fire mentioned four times in Revelation?

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Oh, so you are selling your soul to the scientists and ignoring the Bible? Well that's your choice then. Don't say I didn't warn you when you end up in hell, believing like that.

Since you mentioned this a few times, about Hell I will answer that.

But first. First of all there is nothing wrong with science. Science is not a threat to the bible. Or is it Satanic. In the old days, many religious leaders, persecuted , ones that tried to understand how things worked.
But in reality, God is the greatest scientist. He set up the laws of gravity, also physics, chemistry, astronomy, biology etc. He also gave us the interest in exploration, and in finding out how all the things we see were made and put together. Because the scientists interpret the science they found may be in contrast what the bible says. So in the way you are right. Scientists make assumptions.
But the same is true about the bible. There are many Christian religions, many of them saying different things. So many are assuming different ideas to the same book. So how do you find out which is correct?
It's not correct to bury your head in the sand. Even God wants for us to test the scriptures, he wants you to prove it to yourself.

Romans 12:2 (King James Version)

2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This proof comes from the scriptures and the creation itself.

So if the science disproved creation , then there would be a problem. Then it would be hard to say the bible or God, is true.
But if you look into the science, it also proves a creator. ( though the interpretation of some scientists , contradicts creation) It's an effect by Satan to divert people from God. Many in the world today, are diverted.

If you look at the bible as a big jigsaw puzzle, all the pieces have to fit,to get the whole picture. Just as in a jigsaw puzzle other parts of the puzzle help you to understand where to put other pieces. That is how the bible interprets itself.
So God has made point of telling us that a 'Day' can mean many different time lengths , and is even used as an unspecified length of time, that means we can't say 24 hrs is meant every time.
But the point that life on earth has lasted thousands and thousand of generations and even died out, tells us the earth has been here a long time, by our standards of time. Also earth's geological events would have taken a long time. Certainly more than 7, 24 days.

Now on Hell. There is no place as Hell in the bible. It is just the common grave of mankind. There is no place of torment, there is no hell-fire.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

On the star light problem is not so easy. If you say it is a distance problem then, where the material in the universe started from , to where it is now, takes time. how much time? (It is only a theory just like the scientists have theories. )
There is something else, to consider. Also the countless generations, of life of animals for example, you would need these 1,000s of generations to happen in a day or two (24 hrs) before they died out. ( yet each animal would live say 15 years.). Also there have been geological , happenings, like ice ages, continents moving etc.
God has used the natural laws, to do miracles , with . The flood took 40 days ( 24hr days) to cause the flood and a year for the waters to subside.
Then the bible makes a point of telling us not to be ignorant, that with God a day is a 1,000 years. What is the point of that? Or that all the creative days were one 'day'.

Oh, so you are selling your soul to the scientists and ignoring the Bible? Well that's your choice then. Don't say I didn't warn you when you end up in hell, believing like that.

Does Distant Starlight Prove the Universe Is Old?


Many big bang supporters consider this to be an excellent argument against the biblical timescale. But when we examine this argument carefully, we will see that it does not work. The universe is very big and contains galaxies that are very far away, but that does not mean that the universe must be billions of years old.


Any attempt to scientifically estimate the age of something will necessarily involve a number of assumptions. These can be assumptions about the starting conditions, constancy of rates, contamination of the system, and many others. If even one of these assumptions is wrong, so is the age estimate. Sometimes an incorrect worldview is to blame when people make faulty assumptions. The distant starlight argument involves several assumptions that are questionable—any one of which makes the argument unsound. Let’s examine a few of these assumptions.


The Constancy of the Speed of Light


It is usually assumed that the speed of light is constant with time.2 At today’s rate, it takes light (in a vacuum) about one year to cover a distance of 6 trillion miles. But has this always been so? If we incorrectly assume that the rate has always been today’s rate, we would end up estimating an age that is much older than the true age. But some people have proposed that light was much quicker in the past. If so, light could traverse the universe in only a fraction of the time it would take today. Some creation scientists believe that this is the answer to the problem of distant starlight in a young universe.


The Assumption of Rigidity of Time


Many people assume that time flows at the same rate in all conditions. At first, this seems like a very reasonable assumption. But, in fact, this assumption is false. And there are a few different ways in which the nonrigid nature of time could allow distant starlight to reach earth within the biblical timescale.


The Assumption of Naturalism


It is perfectly acceptable for us to ask, “Did God use natural processes to get the starlight to earth in the biblical timescale? And if so, what is the mechanism?” But if no natural mechanism is apparent, this cannot be used as evidence against supernatural creation. So, the unbeliever is engaged in a subtle form of circular reasoning when he uses the assumption of naturalism to argue that distant starlight disproves the biblical timescale.

As creation scientists research possible solutions to the distant starlight problem, we should also remember the body of evidence that is consistent with the youth of the universe. We see rotating spiral galaxies that cannot last multiple billions of years because they would be twisted-up beyond recognition. We see multitudes of hot blue stars, which even secular astronomers would agree cannot last billions of years.8 In our own solar system we see disintegrating comets and decaying magnetic fields that cannot last billions of years; and there is evidence that other solar systems have these things as well. Of course, such arguments also involve assumptions about the past. That is why, ultimately, the only way to know about the past for certain is to have a reliable historic record written by an eyewitness. That is exactly what we have in the Bible.

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Oh, the starlight problem, that's easy!

http://www.conservapedia.com/Starlight_problem

There is no conflict with the description in Genesis, which says, "let there be light, and there was light." It doesn't say, "let there be light, and there was darkness that light later reached."



The observation that many stars are millions of light years away is one of distance, not time.



Some creationists have proposed that the light we see from stars more than 6,000 light years away was not emitted by those stars, but was created 'in transit' by God. Some question why we would see an image of a star exploding if the explosion did not actually occur, but the finest artistic design is often illusory.


Dr. John Hartnett, a creationist physicist, spurred by Humphreys' model, has proposed an alternative time dilation model, by theorizing the Earth was in a time-dilation field during the first few days of creation, from Earth's point of view, while billions of years passed for the rest of the universe. According to the Bible, God "stretched out"[15] the heavens (space), and this movement during creation week caused time to travel faster for those objects, in accordance with Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, adding to the time dilation caused by gravity, per Humphreys, in accordance with Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.[16]

On the star light problem is not so easy. If you say it is a distance problem then, where the material in the universe started from , to where it is now, takes time. how much time? (It is only a theory just like the scientists have theories. )
There is something else, to consider. Also the countless generations, of life of animals for example, you would need these 1,000s of generations to happen in a day or two (24 hrs) before they died out. ( yet each animal would live say 15 years.). Also there have been geological , happenings, like ice ages, continents moving etc.
God has used the natural laws, to do miracles , with . The flood took 40 days ( 24hr days) to cause the flood and a year for the waters to subside.
Then the bible makes a point of telling us not to be ignorant, that with God a day is a 1,000 years. What is the point of that? Or that all the creative days were one 'day'.

Genesis 2:1-7 (King James Version)

Genesis 2

1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

This is lumping all of creation into one 'day'

The creative days were periods of time.

Also God does not after to adhere to a solar day, of 24 hrs.

[Meek and Humble]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Because this seems very important to you I thought I would try one more time with this.

Though I am not sure of the scientists dating methods into history , there is one way that seems accurate. And that is the speed of light. (1)*Light from the Andromeda nebula can be seen on a clear night in the northern hemisphere. It takes about 2,000,000 years for that light to reach the earth, indicating that the universe must be at least millions of years old. (2)*End products of radioactive decay in rocks in the earth testify that some rock formations have been undisturbed for billions of years.

Oh, the starlight problem, that's easy!

http://www.conservapedia.com/Starlight_problem

There is no conflict with the description in Genesis, which says, "let there be light, and there was light." It doesn't say, "let there be light, and there was darkness that light later reached."



The observation that many stars are millions of light years away is one of distance, not time.



Some creationists have proposed that the light we see from stars more than 6,000 light years away was not emitted by those stars, but was created 'in transit' by God. Some question why we would see an image of a star exploding if the explosion did not actually occur, but the finest artistic design is often illusory.


Dr. John Hartnett, a creationist physicist, spurred by Humphreys' model, has proposed an alternative time dilation model, by theorizing the Earth was in a time-dilation field during the first few days of creation, from Earth's point of view, while billions of years passed for the rest of the universe. According to the Bible, God "stretched out"[15] the heavens (space), and this movement during creation week caused time to travel faster for those objects, in accordance with Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, adding to the time dilation caused by gravity, per Humphreys, in accordance with Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.[16]

[epignosis]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

Friend, again you are just repeating your arguments, while I have addressed and rebuked them.

I know that, with God, a day can be thousand years. But in the case of Genesis 1, we can be sure that it isn't. You reply to Exodus 20:10-11, but you do not answer the argument based on this Verse. I will just repeat this argument here:

Exodus 20:10-11:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

If the days in Genesis weren't literal days, then why should we take one literal day of rest after six literal days of labor?

Anyway, it says that God blessed the "Sabbath Day" (definitely a literal day) because He rested on the seventh day. So the seventh day was definitely a day, and so must the other ones therefore have been.

Because this seems very important to you I thought I would try one more time with this.

Though I am not sure of the scientists dating methods into history , there is one way that seems accurate. And that is the speed of light. (1)*Light from the Andromeda nebula can be seen on a clear night in the northern hemisphere. It takes about 2,000,000 years for that light to reach the earth, indicating that the universe must be at least millions of years old. (2)*End products of radioactive decay in rocks in the earth testify that some rock formations have been undisturbed for billions of years.
Genesis 1:3-31 is not discussing the original creation of matter or of the heavenly bodies. It describes the preparation of the already existing earth for human habitation. This included creation of the basic kinds of vegetation, marine life, flying creatures, land animals, and the first human pair. All of this is said to have been done within a period of six “days.” However, the Hebrew word translated “day” has a variety of meanings, including ‘a long time; the time covering an extraordinary event.’ (Old Testament Word Studies, Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1978, W. Wilson, p. 109) The term used allows for the thought that each “day” could have been thousands of years in length, or millions.

Also Gods rest day started after the creation of Adam. It is now 6,000 years or so from that time , and there still is the millennium ( 1,000 years) to go. This is all in God's rest 'day'. So that means Gods rest 'day' is a least 7,000 years long.
For man's rest 'day' is a 24 hr period of time.
Also the Sabbath was given to the Jews in Exodus, and Jesus fulfilled the law, and since that time, man is not under the Sabbath requirement any more.

The bible and the science are in harmony, there is no contradiction. Science actually proves the bible correct. Though I do think the scientists have helped man understand many things that the bible doesn't go into. The bible was never intended to be a science book.But is still scientifically accurate.

[True Disciple]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I guess I thought this was obvious. Sorry about that.
God is not under a solar day like man is. He isn't even under days of the week. What is a year for God? Man has a year, it depends on our sun. We divide that up into weeks and months. God is not bound by our solar time. For God, time is symbolic, and he uses our time, so that we can understand. But he is not limited, by our physical earth or sun.

Friend, again you are just repeating your arguments, while I have addressed and rebuked them.

I know that, with God, a day can be thousand years. But in the case of Genesis 1, we can be sure that it isn't. You reply to Exodus 20:10-11, but you do not answer the argument based on this Verse. I will just repeat this argument here:

Exodus 20:10-11:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

If the days in Genesis weren't literal days, then why should we take one literal day of rest after six literal days of labor?

Anyway, it says that God blessed the "Sabbath Day" (definitely a literal day) because He rested on the seventh day. So the seventh day was definitely a day, and so must the other ones therefore have been.

[Bogdana Alkeav]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

For you then, it must fell pretty good, the world is going along better than in the past, so things are great.

Just trying to stop your Chicken Little act "The sky is falling, the sky is falling! It's the end times! The world has never been this evil!"

When in fact every generation for 2000 years has claimed it was the end times, has said that the world had never been worse, and that they saw the signs of the Bible coming true in their day. But no, I'm sure YOU must be the first one that was right.

[BelieverInGod]

Re: God HATES Rational Thinking!

I am starting to get rumblings about the understanding I have on the bible.
So I'm probably out staying my welcome.
So I will not bother you people any more.
I enjoyed our talks, and I hope the best for you all.
Even you Bogdana, (The scientists do not have the answer.)

I will check the posts for a little bit, but I probably have said enough.
Thanks
epi

I see you refuse to answer my question. I assume that means that you admit you're just making it up as you go along.

Why don't you come clean and tell us why you're really here.