[Catherine Moore]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

Paedophilia is only wrong because it disobeys secular law. Again we raise the point of different ages of consent in different countries on the one hand - because people have made that decision for themselves - against a common definition of theft across all legal codes - because it is based on God's law.

While you may think paedophilia is "the one of if the not the worst act perpetrated by humans?" I see it on the same level as posting a letter with an upside down stamp or driving with tyres below the regulation pressure. Sure the perpetrator will go to Hell because they have broken the laws of the country they live in but that is the only reason God objects.

Please don't try to force your self-defined morality on us.

[Bitch23]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

That's right. Jesus does not want us to worship the demon of self examination. There are many forms of this sin; yoga is a quite well known one.

Where did He say that? (the point about casting stones has already been covered)

The point is that Jesus did not reveal Himself to introverts doing "looking inward" He revealed Himself to people who were ENGAGED with others and INTERACTING with them (sharing a meal, out walking, later He instructs us to bring The Gospel to all nations - not something to be achieved perched under a blanket or displaying oneself on behalf of demons before their idols).It is not our place to think. God's path is one of obedience. Christians obey Him.

I Corinthians 11:28-30:

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.


Corinthians 13:5:

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Prove yourselves. Do you not know yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

Galatians 6:3-4:

"For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another."

If you can find me the Bible verse that states yoga as a sin, I will take your word about this. As far as the not thinking thing goes, again I would like you to find me a verse where Jesus or God states that people should not think. Again, I'm serious, I'm not a believer, if nothing else take this as an opportunity to enlighten someone who is in need of the light.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

If God took the time to give us the ten commandments, and a litany of other laws deemed sinful, like what to eat and when, not to trim the corners of your beard, how exactly to sacrifice a ram in his name, then sent his son to die for our sins, isn't odd that neither of them mentioned pedophilia at all?

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:7-9

How did we as humans come to the realization that pedophilia was wrong when it isn't written in God's law? Serious question from a non-believer.

Well, if you think about it, a couple hundred years ago even, teenagers were considered adults. People who would have at one time been married lawfully are now "jail bait." Why does society lengthen childhood? I personally think it's a matter of loosing our religious identity. As America gains prosperity, it looses its vision of being part of God's Plan. As people live the life of comfort, they forget to whom all glory ought to be given. As people are increasingly pampered, they spoil their children, allowing them to be children for many more years. It's a shame, really, because the children grow up thinking life is easy and have no idea the cost of spiritual ignorance. The government increasingly spoils people by invoking laws like childhood labor laws, marriage age limits, welfare. These are things that contribute to people expecting a hand-out, expecting to be pampered. A childhood now extends to one's 20's as unmarried children live at home with their parents just because they're too accustomed to playing x-box to move out and get a real job. In other words, dear, it's all messed up. Our logic as a country has been confused. We've been duped by Satan's lies and we don't know why we do anything we do anymore. It's a real shame.

The good news is, you can still be saved from the very depths of Hell, the only option you've chosen so far. You can come to Christ and He will forgive you of your evil rebellion against Him. He will blot out all your sins so the Father will never see them, and instead of being burned in Hell for all eternity, you can come right into Heaven and join us singing the Praises of the Father Almighty!!!

[Bitch23]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

Paedophilia is only wrong because it disobeys secular law. Again we raise the point of different ages of consent in different countries on the one hand - because people have made that decision for themselves - against a common definition of theft across all legal codes - because it is based on God's law.

While you may think paedophilia is "the one of if the not the worst act perpetrated by humans?" I see it on the same level as posting a letter with an upside down stamp or driving with tyres below the regulation pressure. Sure the perpetrator will go to Hell because they have broken the laws of the country they live in but that is the only reason God objects.

Please don't try to force your self-defined morality on us.

Catherine, I'm not trying to impose any sort of thing. My question was clear. God took a lot of time defining what was right or wrong, but said nothing of fornicating with a 4 year old. I understand your point about age of consent, but that has nothing to do with pedophilia. A secular law may state that can have sex with a 14 year old in one country, but a 16 year old in another, but that has nothing to do with the question I'm asking. You seem to be defining pedophilia as an 18 year old having sex with a 16 or 14 year old. You don't seem to have a firm grasp on the concept of pedophilia. There are a vast number of pedophiles who have sex with 2 year olds, 4 year olds, 8 year olds, 11 year olds. In fact, if you do some research, there are man pedophiles who are attracted to young girls who lose their attraction when girls have their first period. They consider them too old at that point. To equate this type of behavior to placing a stamp upside down is, I don't actually know what it is. You're referring to laws that dictate what statutory rape is, not pedophilia, which is completely beside the point.

Can we agree that a person that has sex with a 4 year old girl or boy is a horrible person and deserves more punishment than a person that puts a stamp upside down on an envelope. Please tell me we have at least that much in common. I have always found it odd that the ten commandments did not address rape or pedophilia. That's all, and I was asking if Christians might find it odd as well. To me it would be something that the founders of our morality would address. Those two things alone have kept me far from the faith.

[Catherine Moore]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

Having sex with a two year old is almost certainly rape, which the Bible does condemn. The relevant passages are in Deuteronomy.

However, in - for example - Saudi Arabia there is no age of consent. Thus, paedophilia as you explain it does not exist in Saudi Arabia. Here is the relvant passage from the Godless Wikipedia:

Any kind of sexual activity outside marriage is illegal in Saudi Arabia, but there is no restriction on the age of marriage.[57] For instance, in 2008 a Saudi court refused to annul a marriage between an 8 year old girl and a 58 year old man.[58] A prohibition on marriage under the age of 14 was being considered by the Ministry of Justice in late 2008. According to cleric Ahmad Al-Mu’bi, the appropriate minimum age for sex "varies according to environment and traditions."[57]

I'm confused, in short, by your point. How can paedophilia be so bad when we cannot even agree if it exists?

There are, incidentally, considerably more than ten commandments.

[Capt. Aaron Portway]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

Catherine, I'm not trying to impose any sort of thing. My question was clear. God took a lot of time defining what was right or wrong, but said nothing of fornicating with a 4 year old. I understand your point about age of consent, but that has nothing to do with pedophilia. A secular law may state that can have sex with a 14 year old in one country, but a 16 year old in another, but that has nothing to do with the question I'm asking. You seem to be defining pedophilia as an 18 year old having sex with a 16 or 14 year old. You don't seem to have a firm grasp on the concept of pedophilia. There are a vast number of pedophiles who have sex with 2 year olds, 4 year olds, 8 year olds, 11 year olds. In fact, if you do some research, there are man pedophiles who are attracted to young girls who lose their attraction when girls have their first period. They consider them too old at that point. To equate this type of behavior to placing a stamp upside down is, I don't actually know what it is. You're referring to laws that dictate what statutory rape is, not pedophilia, which is completely beside the point.

Can we agree that a person that has sex with a 4 year old girl or boy is a horrible person and deserves more punishment than a person that puts a stamp upside down on an envelope. Please tell me we have at least that much in common. I have always found it odd that the ten commandments did not address rape or pedophilia. That's all, and I was asking if Christians might find it odd as well. To me it would be something that the founders of our morality would address. Those two things alone have kept me far from the faith.

Hey, this better not have anything to do with my wife pal! Sure, she's a few years younger than me, but like Catherine says, the Bible says nothing against it.

I've got my eye on you pal.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

To me it would be something that the founders of our morality would address. Those two things alone have kept me far from the faith.

The "founder of our morality" is God Almighty Himself. Have you ever prayed sincerely? He will answer you if your prayer is genuine and your heart open.

[Bitch23]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:7-9

Well, if you think about it, a couple hundred years ago even, teenagers were considered adults. People who would have at one time been married lawfully are now "jail bait." Why does society lengthen childhood? I personally think it's a matter of loosing our religious identity. As America gains prosperity, it looses its vision of being part of God's Plan. As people live the life of comfort, they forget to whom all glory ought to be given. As people are increasingly pampered, they spoil their children, allowing them to be children for many more years. It's a shame, really, because the children grow up thinking life is easy and have no idea the cost of spiritual ignorance. The government increasingly spoils people by invoking laws like childhood labor laws, marriage age limits, welfare. These are things that contribute to people expecting a hand-out, expecting to be pampered. A childhood now extends to one's 20's as unmarried children live at home with their parents just because they're too accustomed to playing x-box to move out and get a real job. In other words, dear, it's all messed up. Our logic as a country has been confused. We've been duped by Satan's lies and we don't know why we do anything we do anymore. It's a real shame.

The good news is, you can still be saved from the very depths of Hell, the only option you've chosen so far. You can come to Christ and He will forgive you of your evil rebellion against Him. He will blot out all your sins so the Father will never see them, and instead of being burned in Hell for all eternity, you can come right into Heaven and join us singing the Praises of the Father Almighty!!!

You have a solid point about how we define childhood. I would rebut with the idea that God knows all, and has a plan, and that he should have seen this coming. Society does not extend childhood, medicine does. When we discovered microbial diseases, for example, thousands and thousands of years of humans thinking that plague and diseases of the mouth being the wrath of God were erased. And people began to live much longer. Your point is sound, that during the time the Bible was written, a 10 year old girl would have probably come into womanhood and been "ready" for marriage. But with that said, am I to believe that God was restricted in his teachings by the horrible conditions that people lived under during this time? Is He not wiser than that? It sounds to me like you're saying that God only knew what humans knew at that point in time. Why would God not teach of things like soap and toothpaste so that his children would not suffer so greatly? It makes no sense to me that a being that is all love would let his children, even the ones who believed in him and followed his every word, die by the millions and think that it was his doing, when all he had to do was teach us about soap.

Everything is not messed up. That is your own perception of things. A strong rebuttal for what you are saying is that religious dogma and strict adherence to laws that were made 2000 years ago are the reasons that things seem messed up to you. People, like myself, don't see things as messed up and live out very happy lives, being good to one another, without the concept of the world being messed up, but rather it is just humans continuing to evolve. And please don't worry about me, I was saved the day I realized that there is no hell for me to spend eternity in, and when I stopped letting people such as yourself try to convince me that I'm a bad person or wicked, because I am not either of those things, and I am ashamed for the human race that people still walk the earth to this day thinking that way simply because someone is different than them. No all loving being would teach such nonsense.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

You have a solid point about how we define childhood. I would rebut with the idea that God knows all, and has a plan, and that he should have seen this coming.

Of course He saw it coming, and in His mercy He allowed it, and allows it still.

Society does not extend childhood, medicine does. When we discovered microbial diseases, for example, thousands and thousands of years of humans thinking that plague and diseases of the mouth being the wrath of God were erased. And people began to live much longer.

You're confusing yourself (it happens when you aren't familiar with the Holy Bible).

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Romans 8:28

Medicine has no power over God. People believing microbes are the cause of illness and death doesn't make it so. We know God is sovereign in all things, even the workings of the tiny cells in our bodies.

Your point is sound, that during the time the Bible was written, a 10 year old girl would have probably come into womanhood and been "ready" for marriage. But with that said, am I to believe that God was restricted in his teachings by the horrible conditions that people lived under during this time? Is He not wiser than that? It sounds to me like you're saying that God only knew what humans knew at that point in time. Why would God not teach of things like soap and toothpaste so that his children would not suffer so greatly? It makes no sense to me that a being that is all love would let his children, even the ones who believed in him and followed his every word, die by the millions and think that it was his doing, when all he had to do was teach us about soap.

Oh you poor, confused atheist. God is not concerned with how clean our hands are, he's concerned with our eternal soul. His concern is limited to whether or not we do His will. (Matthew 21:28-31) He can see our crusty, horrifying, rebellious sin and never let us enter heaven (Revelation 21:27), or instead He forget all about them! (Isaiah 43:25 Hebrews 8:12; 10:17). Washing your hands may give you a few more years on this earth, but this earth is not our "home." Our home is with the Father, for ever and ever and ever! (John 14:2)

Everything is not messed up. That is your own perception of things. A strong rebuttal for what you are saying is that religious dogma and strict adherence to laws that were made 2000 years ago are the reasons that things seem messed up to you. People, like myself, don't see things as messed up and live out very happy lives, being good to one another, without the concept of the world being messed up, but rather it is just humans continuing to evolve. And please don't worry about me, I was saved the day I realized that there is no hell for me to spend eternity in, and when I stopped letting people such as yourself try to convince me that I'm a bad person or wicked, because I am not either of those things, and I am ashamed for the human race that people still walk the earth to this day thinking that way simply because someone is different than them. No all loving being would teach such nonsense.

Please, heed the warnings of the LORD:

The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
Psalm 10:4

Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said in his heart, Thou wilt not require it.
Psalm 10:13

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1

Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
Isaiah 29:15

Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin
Isaiah 30:1

Thus says the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusts in man, and makes flesh his arm, and whose heart departs from the LORD.
Jeremiah 17:5

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

Please tell me we have at least that much in common. I have always found it odd that the ten commandments did not address rape or pedophilia. That's all, and I was asking if Christians might find it odd as well. To me it would be something that the founders of our morality would address. Those two things alone have kept me far from the faith.

There are at lest thirty six commandments of God's, the ten are only most famous. We keep on trying to show you were God addresses rape but you need to pay attention.

[Bitch23]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

Having sex with a two year old is almost certainly rape, which the Bible does condemn. The relevant passages are in Deuteronomy.

However, in - for example - Saudi Arabia there is no age of consent. Thus, paedophilia as you explain it does not exist in Saudi Arabia. Here is the relvant passage from the Godless Wikipedia:

Any kind of sexual activity outside marriage is illegal in Saudi Arabia, but there is no restriction on the age of marriage.[57] For instance, in 2008 a Saudi court refused to annul a marriage between an 8 year old girl and a 58 year old man.[58] A prohibition on marriage under the age of 14 was being considered by the Ministry of Justice in late 2008. According to cleric Ahmad Al-Mu’bi, the appropriate minimum age for sex "varies according to environment and traditions."[57]

I'm confused, in short, by your point. How can paedophilia be so bad when we cannot even agree if it exists?

There are, incidentally, considerably more than ten commandments.

After much reflection, and many tears, I've decided that you people are the devil incarnate. Possibly the most evil, disoriented, and crazy people I have ever encountered. I have tried my very best to put you to the test and you passed evey one without a blink. It's incredible really. In fact, if I didn't know any better, I wouldn't even believe this was real... But gOD DAMN you are entertaining for an angry Atheist. I mean atheist.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

Because you are a disgusting degenerate pervert

There's a good quote for you. Took me 14 nanoseconds to find that one. You'll probably say that it doesn't count, but it does. You're not quoting Bible here are you? Are those the words of the lord? Did God ever say that anyone was a disgusting degenerate pervert? Show me the passage.

You're not very bright, are you? No wonder you're an atheist; you have horrible reading comprehension. Have you passed the fourth grade yet?

He asked to show where a True Christian™ has quoted the Bible incorrectly, or "interpreted" the Bible. He did not ask you to show where a True Christian™ said anything other than Bible quotes.

After much reflection, and many tears, I've decided that you people are the devil incarnate. Possibly the most evil, disoriented, and crazy people I have ever encountered. I have tried my very best to put you to the test and you passed evey one without a blink. It's incredible really. In fact, if I didn't know any better, I wouldn't even believe this was real... But gOD DAMN you are entertaining for an angry Atheist. I mean atheist.

An atheist thinks we are the devil. (Thank you for realizing that "atheist" is not a proper noun.)

I suppose that's a step in the right direction, as you are finally realizing that what you can see and feel aren't all that exists. It also means that you accept God's existence!

Now, back to the Bible . . . where in anything said by these fine True Christian™ folk have you seen something which runs counter to Scripture? Because Christianity means believing and obeying the Bible, not some made-up Oprahist idea of what "god" would be, if only "god" thought just like you or me.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

I Corinthians 11:28-30:

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.


Corinthians 13:5:

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Prove yourselves. Do you not know yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

Galatians 6:3-4:

"For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another."

If you can find me the Bible verse that states yoga as a sin, I will take your word about this. As far as the not thinking thing goes, again I would like you to find me a verse where Jesus or God states that people should not think. Again, I'm serious, I'm not a believer, if nothing else take this as an opportunity to enlighten someone who is in need of the light.

There is no similarity between the demonic posession of yoga and the necessary degree of caution associated with observing God's commandments concerning religion. Yoga is the bedrock of satanic lies disseminated as "Hinduism" which not only demands idol worship but creates a whole culture of genital adoration and temple prostitutes ("godesses"). Apart from the direct negation of God's Word in the heart of every hindoo which in itself is a sin worthy of death, we know that the very act of existing within their devilish culture is anathema because God tells us so.

Satan also had his representative in Israel. Many Israelites chose to worship him, in the form of Baal, and there were disputes as to who should be King i.e. disputes as to which demoniac might be king instead of God's choice. Many of these imposters worshipped Baal and the consequences of doing that are severe. God loves His people and does not desire that outcome but many choose to follow false religions.

II Kings 10:13,14,18-28

God appointed the new King. Nevertheless many elected to follow Baal even knowing that God had warned them of the certain death that would follow such a choice. These false religions, Baal worship, Islam, Hinduism, Yoga, are united in satan, whose one desire is for absolute destruction.

II Kings 11:1-3,4,10,12,13-16

Christians are in a covenant with God. He is unchanging. The obligation to repugn all false belief systems is similarly unchanged. All belief systems other than Christianity are false. This is fundamental, from the Mosaic Law given to us at Horeb to the present day.

It is current.

II Chronicles 15:12-13 .. Deuteronomy 12:1-8

find me the Bible verse that states yoga as a sin,

Yoga is a sin because it is a different "religion" viz Hinduism (or Buddhism, which is the same thing: Siddhartha was a hindoo who claimed to have attained whatever the goal of that satanic belief system may be. In his opinion. It still involves idolatry though..

Concerning thought, notice how easily we are enticed to every man doing whatsoever is right in his own eyes. Deuteronomy 12:8 KJV
When God gave us His Just Law it was not some sort of "outline" or topic for discussion. God's Law is absolute. Yes, He does refer to reason - and we are to reason together.

Isaiah 1:18-20

The sinful mind of man is debased and whorish: Isaiah 1:21-25 KJV which is why God has given us His Word to follow and equipped men with the mind to receive and understand His Commandments. All other applications of reason are incidental (how to make an æroplane) at best or demonic (as in the case of atheism, for example) and no Christian would ever base his life on so shifting a sand-dune. Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient..

Wouldn't you like to be a part of that feast? It does not derive from "reason" but from Grace. The Pastoral team here at Landover Baptist Church can accommodate your yearning for the truth, and The Truth will set you free. Do please contact them for sound teaching and they will explain further how you may commit your life to Him.

It's up to you.

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

Because you are a disgusting degenerate pervert

There's a good quote for you. Took me 14 nanoseconds to find that one. You'll probably say that it doesn't count, but it does. You're not quoting Bible here are you? Are those the words of the lord? Did God ever say that anyone was a disgusting degenerate pervert? Show me the passage.

I believe that one of mine. I'm very certain I wasn't quoting the Bible with those words.

I point out all the time that people are being disgusting degenerate perverts and can always back that up with scripture that shows where God states that He finds what they do an abomination etc etc. Instead of taking things out of context why not show what perversion I was addressing. I'm guessing it was probably gayness, which has time and time again been shown to be an abomination in the eyes of God.

Try again.

[KimmyDropDEAD]

Re: Homosexuals Are Not Born That Way!

im a bi girl (: who cares , anal sex is anal sex;D