[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: A Discussion

John 3:16

He is giving everyone a chance...why don't you?

We do. We promote True Christianity™, which is the only way to Heaven. We let the world know what it takes to get into Heaven.

John 13:34

This is the commandment straight from the mouth of Our Living Savior and Redeemer. Putting it into context, he is speaking to his disciples, are you a disciple of Jesus, to spread his Word?

Yes, but what does Jesus mean by "love"? Does he mean be a sissy, tolerate everything around you, and give everyone hugs? No, sometimes tough love is necessary! We have to rebuke, tell it like it is, and give people the honest truth -- even if it hurts them. We are constantly trying to help people get Saved© by Jesus Christ so that they may have eternal life. That is love, right there! We are offering people a way to Heaven and an escape from eternal damnation by our hardworking efforts to show others the Truth about the Bible and not damn them by distorting it.

When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. 13"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Now realize that Jesus has just washed Judas' feet, thus making him "clean." Jesus has made the man who would betray him clean! Now that is acceptance of sin, is it not? Jesus has accepted my sins...I am eternally grateful for God's gift.

Jesus is the one who washes away the sins, not us. Through his temporary sacrifice, we may all have eternal life....IF we accept Him as our Lord and Savior. Jesus makes it very clear what happens if you don't follow Him...you become eternally damned.

What the point of the story above is this: Jesus washes away your sins through his blood. We are commanded to go out and save sinners in Jesus' name. Jesus washed away Judas' sins in the story and he commands them to go out and do the same -- but we can't wash away or forgive sins, only Jesus! However, we can be witnesses to Christ's Word and spread the Good News that Jesus Christ has died and resurrected so we may have eternal life.

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

[QUOTE=sinnerbutsaved;368936]John 3:16

He is giving everyone a chance...why don't you?



John 13:34

This is the commandment straight from the mouth of Our Living Savior and Redeemer. Putting it into context, he is speaking to his disciples, are you a disciple of Jesus, to spread his Word?

[quote]When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. 13"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Now realize that Jesus has just washed Judas' feet, thus making him "clean." Jesus has made the man who would betray him clean! Now that is acceptance of sin, is it not? Jesus has accepted my sins...I am eternally grateful for God's gift.

May God continue to grace us with his Love and we continue to give praise to our Creator.

-Brett

I do love my fellow True Christians. What's your problem?

Also, you don't get an edit button. Your words are set in digital stone for all to see for the ages. Make sure that you are typing what you meant, and not something else. There's a preview area with additional features to help you make your message more accurate. Try it out.

no i missed the slash in the "end quote" block and wanted to put it back...not change anything I said.

Anyways, my point is that Jesus excepted those who did not follow the Jewish Law (the Law that we all come from as Christians) as well as those who did.

We are brothers and sisters in Christ...all of us who believe...truly believe that Jesus Christ was and is the Son of God, came to earth, died, and was risen to life to save us all from our sins is saved.

You call me a sinner? THANK YOU! For my sins make me human and while I'd DO NOT embrace them for they are evil, I DO sin...you do too...and that's okay, because it gives justification for Jesus' death and resurrection. I came to Christ because he still loved me when I did not know Him.

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Mark 2:17...for it is the Word of God, Praise unto the Father.

My point is: God ***HATES*** sin, but he does not hate a single person, he loves us all. For through the Power of Jesus Christ we are saved. You are not saved by your own righteousness...for not one of us on Earth are truly righteous...

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: A Discussion

Anyways, my point is that Jesus excepted those who did not follow the Jewish Law (the Law that we all come from as Christians) as well as those who did.

We are brothers and sisters in Christ...all of us who believe...truly believe that Jesus Christ was and is the Son of God, came to earth, died, and was risen to life to save us all from our sins is saved.

But if you truly follow Jesus you would listen to everything He said and not just pick and choose which verses to follow.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus is telling us here to follow ALL of the Bible. We follow the Bible 100%, word-for-word. Do you? If not, you will be damned to Hell.

Mark 2:17...for it is the Word of God, Praise unto the Father.

My point is: God ***HATES*** sin, but he does not hate a single person, he loves us all. For through the Power of Jesus Christ we are saved. You are not saved by your own righteousness...for not one of us on Earth are truly righteous...

Wrong. In many places in the Bible, God makes it clear he hates the sin AND the sinner. For example...

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
Psalm 5:5-6

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence His soul hateth.
Psalm 11:5

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

We do. We promote True Christianity™, which is the only way to Heaven. We let the world know what it takes to get into Heaven.

I agree with that True Christianity is the only way to Heaven.

Yes, but what does Jesus mean by "love"? Does he mean be a sissy, tolerate everything around you, and give everyone hugs? No, sometimes tough love is necessary! We have to rebuke, tell it like it is, and give people the honest truth -- even if it hurts them. We are constantly trying to help people get Saved© by Jesus Christ so that they may have eternal life. That is love, right there! We are offering people a way to Heaven and an escape from eternal damnation by our hardworking efforts to show others the Truth about the Bible and not damn them by distorting it.

Trust me...I don't tolerate a lot of things. Intolerance and hate are two different things though. Love? I think he meant that he would DIE FOR US.

I hope your question was rhetorical, Rev...love is clearly defined in 1 Corinthians.

Jesus is the one who washes away the sins, not us. Through his temporary sacrifice, we may all have eternal life....IF we accept Him as our Lord and Savior. Jesus makes it very clear what happens if you don't follow Him...you become eternally damned.

I totally agree...

What the point of the story above is this: Jesus washes away your sins through his blood. We are commanded to go out and save sinners in Jesus' name. Jesus washed away Judas' sins in the story and he commands them to go out and do the same -- but we can't wash away or forgive sins, only Jesus! However, we can be witnesses to Christ's Word and spread the Good News that Jesus Christ has died and resurrected so we may have eternal life.

Truth...we do only play a part. I agree with you on that part, Rev.

[Bobby-Joe]

Re: A Discussion

Trust me...I don't tolerate a lot of things. Intolerance and hate are two different things though. Love? I think he meant that he would DIE FOR US.

Of course we love the sinners and would do anything to help them be Saved(tm) like us friend. Why do you think we run this forum? To give those horrid low lives the best chance they have of escaping their richly deserved fate!

It really makes us sad that most will be blinded by pride and hate to that they will refuse Christ's gift. But Christ promises us He will wash away our tears so I have faith my Loving Savior will ease my pain at watching so many burn forever.

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

But if you truly follow Jesus you would listen to everything He said and not just pick and choose which verses to follow.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus is telling us here to follow ALL of the Bible. We follow the Bible 100%, word-for-word. Do you? If not, you will be damned to Hell.



Wrong. In many places in the Bible, God makes it clear he hates the sin AND the sinner. For example...

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
Psalm 5:5-6

The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence His soul hateth.
Psalm 11:5

I am not picking verses...I do listen to everything...Yet...you do not see a single instance of the word 'hate' in the New Testament. Not trying to segregate the Bible here, but from the viewpoint of God hating things...it is impossible to love and hate something at the same time. It's illogical.

All workers of iniquity? He is clearly referring to Satan and his demons, if your perspective was correct then how could God love the world and then send Jesus? Jesus saves these people, my Brother...he saves them...as he has done for you and me if they repent...those that don't burn in Hell...I agree with that.

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

Of course we love the sinners and would do anything to help them be Saved™ like us friend. Why do you think we run this forum? To give those horrid low lives the best chance they have of escaping their richly deserved fate!

It really makes us sad that most will be blinded by pride and hate to that they will refuse Christ's gift. But Christ promises us He will wash away our tears so I have faith my Loving Savior will ease my pain at watching so many burn forever.

Okay, now you're talking my langauge...you and me not see eye to eye man, but I can agree with this

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: A Discussion

I am not picking verses...I do listen to everything...Yet...you do not see a single instance of the word 'hate' in the New Testament. Not trying to segregate the Bible here, but from the viewpoint of God hating things...it is impossible to love and hate something at the same time. It's illogical.

Actually the word "hate", and other synonyms feature prominently in the New Testament. Just one example...

Matthew 24:10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

I counted 23 instances of the word "hate" in just the Gospels alone.

All workers of iniquity? He is clearly referring to Satan and his demons, if your perspective was correct then how could God love the world and then send Jesus? Jesus saves these people, my Brother...he saves them...as he has done for you and me if they repent...those that don't burn in Hell...I agree with that.

I don't know where you get that it is referring to Satan. There is no mention of Satan in this psalm. It means just that: workers of inquity. Human beings can be workers of iniquity.

Still, it shows in the Psalm 11 verse I quoted that God hates the wicked and those that love violence. Not just the sin, but the sinner as well.

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

Here's my question: Does EVERYONE on this board believe that they ARE a SINNER?

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

Okay, now you're talking my langauge...you and me not see eye to eye man, but I can agree with this

Actually the word "hate", and other synonyms feature prominently in the New Testament. Just one example...

Matthew 24:10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

I counted 23 instances of the word "hate" in just the Gospels alone.



I don't know where you get that it is referring to Satan. There is no mention of Satan in this psalm. It means just that: workers of inquity. Human beings can be workers of iniquity.

Still, it shows in the Psalm 11 verse I quoted that God hates the wicked and those that love violence. Not just the sin, but the sinner as well.

So if God hates people...then that makes it okay for you to hate people?

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: A Discussion

[...]Ezekial Bathfire (to some minute degree) and Bobby Joe pose good questions to me. [..]

Ezekial Bathfire: If reading a long explanation isn't your thing than don't practice apologetics or read any theological books, particularly Systematic Theology.

I do not object to length if it is pithy, germane, lucid and necessary – yours was not.

[…] 1st John talks incessently about how God is love; […]

1 John 4:7 "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God." 4:8 "Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love." 4:10 "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

The first word v.7 “Beloved” gives the clue – John speaks to True Christians and God’s love for them. You will not claim that God’s love is universal, nor that certain categories of man do NOT love God.

This verse is a fusion of how God is both just and kind, Romans 2: "1Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?"

God is making an offer you can’t refuse. Where is the justice and what is the justice? We should fear the Lord and this is the basis of Christianity – I do not see that we should see His Gift as a reward for what we should freely do.

I also think the author was being a little dogmatic assuming, judging if you will, that we would be doing that of which we accuse others. However, as True Christians™ do not do these things – the lesson is for others.

There is indeed a study to be made of judgment, as we also have:

Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Psalm 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.


Mal:3:18: Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.


1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

The final one sums it up really.

God's kindess is more difficult than a simple human definition.

I am disturbed at this detour into mysticism, when all is laid before you. I cannot see why false Christians say on the one hand, “God is unknowable” or “is more difficult than a simple human definition.” And on the other, “This is an attribute of God.” The statements are simply incompatible. What is wrong with Faith? Does yours falter that you must find human excuses for everything you cannot accept?

The very fact that we are given a chance to repent is an example of His kindess, and here this verse says we take advantage of it.[...]

You know as well as I that God may do as He wishes.

PS – I am surprised that for one who read the Bible, you misspell “Ezekiel” several times…

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: A Discussion

So if God hates people...then that makes it okay for you to hate people?

If God hates something that's good enough for me.

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

1 John 4:20
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

1 John 2:11
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him.

1 John 2:9
Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness.

In your defense:

Hebrews 1:9
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."

these are acts...not people

Romans 12:9
[ Love ] Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

Are people good and evil or are their actions? I really don't know...

Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

God has hated people...before Jesus was sent into the world

Nevertheless, I can see still you all believe in Jesus Christ...and through this commonality we are all Brothers and Sisters...and I love you all because we are all in Christ's Love.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: A Discussion

I think it's quite clear that when Jesus says "brother" he is referring to our fellow brothers in Christ, True Christians(tm). Anyone else we can hate. The Bible makes this quite clear.

[sinnerbutsaved]

Re: A Discussion

I think it's quite clear that when Jesus says "brother" he is referring to our fellow brothers in Christ, True Christians™. Anyone else we can hate. The Bible makes this quite clear.

what about when he says 'Anyone'?