[Jacob the Angry Liar]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

I am not completely avoiding it, I'm simply pointing out that it is not the only verse in Scripture that deals with rape and adultery. Why is it that Deuteronomy comes into play, but Matthew 5:27-29 does not?

What if the girl is unmarried and a virgin, but the man who rapes her has a wife and children already? Must he take a second wife?

What if the girl is unmarried and a virgin, but is 10 years old? Is she then betrothed to this man? Or is she to be married to him while she is still a child?

What if the girl is unmarried and a virgin, but is molested by another woman? They certainly cannot marry!

I am not trying to avoid the words of Deuteronomy, I am simply trying to understand them in the light of the rest of Scripture and varying circumstances.

Matthew 5:27-29 concerns adultery, but not rape. It states that adultery is a sin. If both parties are unmarried, then they must marry or it would be pre-marital sex (Deuteronomy 22). If the rapist is married, then he has committed adultery and is punished by for that, according to Matthew AND Deuteronomy. He wouldn't be able to take her as a second wife because he'd be dead.

If a man rapes a child, I suppose the same law would apply. It makes no distinction based on age and as far as I know the Bible says nothing about having sex with children (I'll look into it though)

A woman couldn't rape another woman, because neither has a tallywhacker. I suppose if a woman touched another inappropriately, she would be punished for uncovering the other's nakedness.

[GOD=life]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Oh, and while you're at it, also check out what "statutory rape" is. A man can be considered a rapist under secular law in certain cases even though the woman was not forced. There are jurisdictions where an 18 year old youth who has sex with his 17 year old consenting girlfriend is branded a rapist.

The reason I point to a secular search engine is so that you can do your own independent research instead of trusting a single source of my choosing. You have already indicated that my source, the Bible, is not acceptable to you, so I point to another non-Biblical source.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

And honestly, God has killed more people than Satan. Source: Bible. Was it murder? Well, technically, yes it was, "To kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously" Source: Dictionary.com.

How convenient. You choose the FIFTH definition of murder to support your claim, ignoring the obvious fact that everyone uses the first! (See below.)

Under the law in every state in the U.S. and, as far as I know, any country that adopted the Common Law from England, "murder" is the intentional unjustified killing of human by a human. I can see two reasons that God's actions are not murder. 1) God is NOT a human. 2) The killings were NOT unjustified. These points are self-evident. Call God a killer and you would be 100% right. He has killed everyone who ahs ever lived! Calling him a murderer is just showing your ignorance.

Now stop tossing the sand out of the sandbox and stick to the point of the thread.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

I am not completely avoiding it, I'm simply pointing out that it is not the only verse in Scripture that deals with rape and adultery. Why is it that Deuteronomy comes into play, but Matthew 5:27-29 does not?

What if the girl is unmarried and a virgin, but the man who rapes her has a wife and children already? Must he take a second wife?

What if the girl is unmarried and a virgin, but is 10 years old? Is she then betrothed to this man? Or is she to be married to him while she is still a child?

What if the girl is unmarried and a virgin, but is molested by another woman? They certainly cannot marry!

I am not trying to avoid the words of Deuteronomy, I am simply trying to understand them in the light of the rest of Scripture and varying circumstances.

You think no further than the end of your nose! You have been avoided and ignored because no one here thought anyone could be as unintelligent as you.

The reason follows, now, go away and read a Bible.

Women as possessions

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showp...postcount=1355

SweatDeath, I see where you are going wrong. You are imagining that a woman is something more than a possession.

Imagine I own a table (I own several as a matter of fact) If someone comes along and hits my table with an ax, surely it is not unreasonable for me to say, "That table was worth 50 silver Shekels, pay me that and take away the table."?

So with a daughter.

After all, what use is a table with a big ax cut in it?

[James Hutchins]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

1. Press the CTRL and N keys at the same time (to open a new browser window)
2. Press the CTRL and L keys at the same time (to enter the address)
3. Type in: www.google.com
4. Click on the long rectangular area
5. Type: date rape percentage
6. Press the enter key (the biggest key on your keyboard, usually)
7. Follow the links to the research

Happy now?

Please come back after you have done research. If you openly state you refuse to research a subject, then you simply don't know what you're talking about.

Please feel free to find factual data from non-Christian sources about the age group in which rapes occur most often, in which environment they occur most often, which types of risky behavior they are strongly correlated with (i.e. drugs and alcohol).

As an extra bonus, do research on false rape statistics. There are literally thousands of men who are proven by DNA evidence to have been put in jail for a rape they could not possibly have committed.

Until then, you are only using your own opinions and machismo as a "factual" basis. Not surprisingly, this is easily shot down in rational debate.

Give this to the lost sheep

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

1. You do so well on your grammar and point out others mistakes. However, you successfully created a run on sentence.

Please point out where I criticized someone for a run on sentence. For that matter, please point out where I criticized someone for poor grammar.

Also, it is said many times that you only demand death penalty to the female. Not both parties involved.

I am sorry, but are you on crack? Can you READ the Bible?

FROM Deut. 22:

22If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

AND

23If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

AND

25But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.
26But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
27For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

Now what was that about men never being executed for rape and other sex-related crimes?

2. Yeah with a fine, not jail. Again, twisting other peoples words and working them against themselves.

See the scripture I cited above. Are you crazy? Do you speak English as a second language? Are you Canadian?

3. With your interpretation. Enough said

Please point out where we are "interpreting" the Bible and not reading the EXACT WORDS ON THE PAGE. It is the whore Pastors who teach ONLY the fun-loving parts of the Bible that are twisting the word of God. YES God wants us to love everyone, so we do. But the other parts of the Bible make it VERY clear that he wants our love to be a tough love...an urgent love. These popular Pastors these days tell you what you want to hear so you will give them money for their positive-message-only, "Hell is just a metaphor" message. See my sig block for the truth.

Again I ask you: Show me ONE passage where we do ANYTHING but read the literal words on the page.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

This is just sickening. She was raped, unwanted intercourse. The man should be in prison and raped by other men there. She shouldn't marry him its not her fault.

As we have said 1064 times, we agree that rape is wrong and so does God.

As far as "she shouldn't marry him," please explain why teh Bible says otherwise.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

there someone here at least has a brain cell

I think he has more than one brain cell. No need to insult everyone just because you are losing an argument.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

I finally got an answer:



My response was:



This response has been ignored. Please note especially:



This is an interesting assertion, as I also cited Scripture to back up my original claims.

It seems there is no way to get a serious, well thought-out answer from the users of this forum. Honest questions are met with either pejorative sarcasm and insults or silence. Meanwhile, rude, childish, and vulgar posts receive multiple responses.

It would be helpful if you linked us to whatever it is you are ranting about. Perhaps then some of us could answer you?

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Yes because what google says is right, am I correct?

You DO realize that Google doesn't SAY anything, right? they just index stuff. Hope this helps you in your quest to figure out how the intertubes work their magic!

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Technically:

Mary was a whore

Why?

She was raped by God

God was the victim

Jesus became a gang banger

Was killed for his crimes

There i summed the Bible up in your mindsets have a good day

Can you READ Deut. 22? It all talks about "if a MAN {does X}." Is God a man? Check and mate.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Can you site your sources for this? Wikipedia is not a source.

Agree 100%. Wikidpedia is biased and is vandalized way too often. That said, you DO realize that they DO provide sourced for you at the bottom of the article, right?

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

OK I went back and found your drivel. Your logical flaws are obvious to a first grader. Let me help you:

I respectfully disagree that the girl should be forced to marry her rapist, based on a few verses I've looked up.

I can't wait. They better say, "Deut. 22 is wrong. Girls who are raped DON'T have to marry the rapist." That would prove your point!

First, there's the basic "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (Exodus 20:14, KJV). Comparing this verse to the words of Jesus Christ in Matthew 5:27-29: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Oh...oh no... It seems you have confused adultery with rape. While they ARE both covered in Deut. 22, they are explicitly listed as different offenses. Try again!

By this reasoning, it is not the girl's fault that her rapist looked at her and lusted after her, but his own.

Uhm, what? First of all, where did the concept of FAULT come into this? The concept of fault being required in order to be guilty of sin is a human invention, not God's. Don't believe me? Okie dokey... All Christians know that the very first sin you commit is the sin of existing as a human. (Original sin.) God gives you this sin the instant you are created, before you can even think. It is the WHOLE REASON BEHIND CHRISTIANITY. Jesus had to come to Earth and DIE for our sin...that wasn't our fault! We all worship God so he will take the sin, that wasn't our fault, away. So next time you are analyzing sins and Biblical rules, drop the idea of fault and look at what the text says.

That said, where in Matthew 5:27-29 does it say that girls should not marry their rapist? I don't see it. What I DO see is that anyone who lusts has sinned. OK..I got that. How does that conflict with Deut 22? The whore frolics around town in trampy clothes. (Sin) The man lusts. (Sin) The man forces himself on her. (Sin) She fails to cry out. (Sin) The man rapes. (Sin) These are all separate sins covered by different parts of the Bible. But I digress. Again I ask, what does the punishment for lust or adultery have to do with the punishment rape of a young virgin or the duty to save your family's reputation by marrying the rapist?

According to Jesus, the proper response would have been to tear out his own eye, not force himself upon her.

AH HA! I have caught your little double standard! You say "It is the MAN'S fault for failing to control his lust. The Bible says to control your lust. He didn't. Ergo, he sinned and caused the incident. He is responsible."

But what about this: The Bible ALSO says not to go around dressed like a harlot. Why don't we use your logic of "he who sinned first in a series of sins is the only one who should be punished" on this scenario? She sinned first by disobeying 1 Timothy 2:9-10:

9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

So...using YOUR OWN LOGIC, she sinned first so she should be the only one punished, since she CAUSED the whole thing. Right? Don't even START on the "but but but lust is worse than dressing up" bit. God has told us that all sins are equally bad, so disobeying God's rules about dressing like a tramp and disobeying God's rule about lusting are equally bad. Let's review:

1. You point out that the Bible says 'don't lust.'
2. You argue that since he disobeyed this rule, the fault is his.
3. We find that the Bible ALSO says 'don't dress like a whore.'
4. We look at your previous logic and apply it to this sin and what do we find... the fault is now HERS.

Done and done.

There is also the case of Tamar and Amnon in 2 Samuel 13. When Amnon raped Tamar, she was not forced to marry him. Rather, Absalom had Amnon killed for his actions. David "was very wroth" (v. 21) when he heard of what Amnon had done. Likewise, after Amnon was killed, David "was comforted concerning Amnon, seeing he was dead" (v. 39).

Are you saying that David or Absalom are God? Are you saying that we should all do whatever they did instead of what God tells us to do? I don't get your point here.

Out of curiousity, I would like to hear from those who are still convinced that the girl is at fault and should be forced to marry the man who raped her. How would you deal with a case of child abuse? There are many twisted and sinful people in this world, and some who would go so far as to use a child for their own gratification. Should this child - who is clearly innocent, being not fully developed and not wearing whorish clothes - be held to blame? Should the child be forced to marry the rapist once he or she is grown?

There is a Biblical difference between a child and a woman. Pedophiles that don't seem to get the difference. Do you?

I would like to add another question (which will probably also be ignored). What of a case of rape by a man who is already married? Is he forced to take a second wife.

You mean if we DON'T know that it is ADULTERY and not something else? OK. i will play along... He certainly pays the 50 sheckels of silver. I assume that he does marry the second woman. Deut. 22 is pretty absolute on the rule and there are many examples in the Bible of men with several, even hundreds of wives. I believe David, whom you cited as a role model above, had eight named wive sand many others who were not named.

[photog]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

I was raped by two men at once. Which one should I marry?

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

I was raped by two men at once. Which one should I marry?

The richer one.

Now go create an introduction thread if you wish to worship with us.