Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

[Johny Joe Hold]

I think we have all heard Christians must forgive their enemies. In my view, we True Christians™ are under no obligation to forgive heathens who challenge the truth of Jesus and his Resurrection. When someone is hell-bound and has been given every opportunity to repent of his sins and get right with Jesus but says, "Not now. Call me later" he a loser that needs to be confronted with hell, not forgiveness.

During this time when Christianity is in crises with falling numbers we need to be confronting heathens, not forgiving them.

Must a Christian Forgive Unconditionally? | Roger E. Olson (patheos.com)

[WWJDnow]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

Jesus doesn't forgive people unless they believe in Him. I don't see why I should have to forgive Jews and Catholics and other non-Christians if Jesus doesn't. Especially if they're Democrats.

[Johny Joe Hold]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

Jesus doesn't forgive people unless they believe in Him. I don't see why I should have to forgive Jews and Catholics and other non-Christians if Jesus doesn't. Especially if they're Democrats.

When people like those who don't believe in Jesus pipe up and tell everyone, why should we forgive them? What is there in it for Landover Baptist? Jesus set down the rules. Let's follow them.

[Dr. Anthony J. Toole]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

It would be helpful to get a lawyer to figure this out. Blasphemy against the holy spirit is of course utterly unforgivable - but that can mean a lot of things. Like how the Supreme Court allows unlimited political donations from corporations (because of their personhood and 1st Amendment rights) and is perfectly fine with gerrymandering, as long as nobody involved says the N word.

So it's sometimes not obvious where the blasphemy laws might be applicable; since these are by definition not forgivable, it would give us an easy out for when we needn't bother forgiving someone.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

I think we have all heard Christians must forgive their enemies. In my view, we True Christians™ are under no obligation to forgive heathens who challenge the truth of Jesus and his Resurrection.

I tend to be in agreement with this.

Landover are Landmark Baptists "Thus far an No Further!" is our watchword when contemplating change or "fresh interpretation".

We only have to think of the Ark of the Covenant and what happened to the sinner who faltered.

The story of Uzzah and the Ark of the Covenant is found in 2 Samuel 6:1-7 and 1 Chronicles 13:9-12. As the ark was being transported, the oxen pulling the cart stumbled, and a man named Uzzah took hold of the ark. God’s anger burned against Uzzah and He struck him down and he died. Uzzah’s punishment does appear to be extreme for what we might consider to be a good deed. However, there are the reasons why God took such severe action.

As in all things, we need to take our lead from God.

I have commented on this somewhat late as I came across the following picture in a book allegedly suitable as guidance for children and could not grasp the message that it was trying to get across:

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

When I meet someone and they ask about The Gospel (often they don't know that's what they're asking but I try to respond appropriately) my first point of reference is The Bible. It's all about love. How that's explained by God is important because He is more alive than we are and His love is more alert.

II John 1:6-11 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

There's quite a lot in those few verses. Sometimes it's thoughtful to ask someone to share a coffee and a cake; they come around and I explain how terrible it is not to know Jesus and experience the anguish. But despite all the evil in the world, there is Good News! And they might say, “Oh, I think Jesus is a silly idea, He can't have been real because He's been described in some detail and everything is either implausible or ridiculous.”

Then I'd know I had a deceiver and an antichrist on the premises who was either bringing a different doctrine or no doctrine at all; in both cases I need to remove my visitor and cease association lest I become a partaker in evil. Without The Bible I might have thought it's worth persisting with my witness. God explains otherwise.

[Unfalsifiable]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

Matthew 12:30-32




King James Version








30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

[Basilissa]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

Matthew 12:30-32

King James Version
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Yes dear, God's love is conditional, and His vengeance is often of epic proportions. This thread, however, talks about whether Christians should or should not love conditionally. Sadly, as humans we do not have the same capabilities as God when it comes to vengeance.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

God knows how important it not to associate even with those who may be Christians but have some unfortunate trait or belong to a different tradition. Bearing this in mind, God used Paul, Silvanus and Timothy as examples of the right thing to do.

II Thessalonians 3:6-9 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

There are all sorts of traditions claiming to be Christian. They're easily identified when false – because they contradict Jesus. How to behave varies a little, for example wearing a veil identifies you as a prostitute in one place but is a sensible precaution in others. Veiled pith helmets are advisable in the tropics or where knobkerries aren't a factor some less austere design.

The biggie here though is not hats. It's food. Of course my friend is welcome to call in for tea any time, we enjoy cakes or a salad or when appropriate steak with grilled tomato and mushrooms, perhaps a glass of refreshing punch, yes – but say you meet a visitor at Church whom you invite back for dinner? And then does't pay you? Or at least do some gardening? (I have some awkward shrubbery just now I'd like removed.) But there could be other forms of travail you need help with. God used an example here, there's nothing for me to work out, and our response is plain.

Dis that wretch.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

Everyone that knows me, knows I am a 'live and let live' type of guy, always looking at the good in people and constantly forgiving transgressions,. no matter how great. If any of my ex-wives were still alive, they could attest to that, not a single one would of EVER said a negative thing about me.
I say this with some shame but I know it is always best to get it out and share my burdens with my fellow Christians. I have been raped a few times and never married my rapist as I was married at the time and I do not cotton to that LSD nonsense of magic underwear and polygamy. It is tough enough tolerating one female, I cannot fathom two or more.
If my potato was not steaming hot, I never back handed my wife, I just lovingly instructed her to do it again. If the floors did not sparkle, I'd dump a bucket of manure on the marble and explain in the softest of voice, right close to her ear where she could feel my hot breath and say ever so softly, 'scrub it again, this time with clean water'. Teaching moments.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

Teaching moments are learning moments. Always taking the milder path, than Scripture would allow, is the mark of true humility.

Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

[its_faith]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

If you pretend they are bad friends then they arent enemies so they can stay unforgiven.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

If you pretend they are bad friends then they arent enemies so they can stay unforgiven.

Are you saying "bad" friends are not enemies and thus fall outside Christ's requirement?

[its_faith]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

Are you saying "bad" friends are not enemies and thus fall outside Christ's requirement?

Yes if they were enemies then they would not be bad friends.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Must Christians Forgive Unconditionally

Yes if they were enemies then they would not be bad friends.

I refer you to the answer I gave earlier today.

. . . there's "super doubters" who even doubt doubt itself. That would make them non-doubters wouldn't it? Or maybe indeterminate state-wise. Sort of like that ridiculous my enemy's enemy is my friend, and this is not the start of a joke but there's an Arab a Persian and a Turk. All follow a text requiring Christians to be enslaved or drilled through the head with a good-sized uranium slug.

From time to time one camp or the other will advocate less draconian aspects of this disgusting creed (currently for example I'm not too bothered by Sufi threats or risk of enslavement by whirling dervishes) (who are Turks) but later they could do what Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab did in the 18th century: ushering in a Luther-styled reformation by reading the texts themselves: it could start tomorrow: once it's decided a decade is more than adequate.

They're more anathema for the Persians than for the Arabs (this year) presumably due to their Hanafi school having an Iranian origin. In that case enemies' enemies may be one's friend but it's more hierarchy-of-enemies than -of-friends. And (insofar as the text is concerned) We. Are. The. Enemy. None of them would be our friends: but there's still this nagging question: has the Islamic reformation already taken place?

So these super-doubters, who doubt even doubt itself, where do they fit on your spectrum? Are they a reformation too?