Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

[eddieboy]

Ok so i was given an infraction a while ago by Pastor Ezekiel. I was told to use Scripture to back up my points. I was referenced to this page:

Scripture or it didn't happen

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=13090

Ok, I'm fine with the rules that the moderators post. It's your website, so I'll kindly adhere to the rules, to the best of my ability.

In this thread I will be using Scripture (as instructed) to disprove creation.

1) 1st Point:

Ok so we got Adam and Eve. They have 2 kids: Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel. So, where did Cain get his wife? Also, explain how all the diversity of our species (homo sapien) can come from one man. If you say there's no diversity, look here:

http://hd.ingham.org/media/3805/head_citizenship_diversity_330x225.jpg

2) 2nd Point:

Ok, all the evidence points towards evolution. We've found a closer ancestor to ours with the Chimps some weeks ago (Ardi). The DNA clearly shows our common ancestory with the chimps as well (fusion in chromosome #2). Also if you think the universe is 6000 yrs old, well, all the evidence seems to point to 13.7 billion. Carbon dating, Argon-Potassium dating, lead-lead dating, tree-ring dating, and like a ton of other dating methods seem to point to millions of years and we have archaeological evidence of civilizations at 6000 yrs ago. In fact, the Babylonians were drinking beer while Yahweh was creating the universe .

So how does a christian respond to this. Well they say God made everything look like it was here for millions of years, but nothing existed before 4004 B.C. BUT THIS CANNOT HAPPEN! Why?

Titus 1:1-2

"{1:1} Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; {1:2} In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"

AH-HA!

God cannot lie! and thus it couldn't have been a deception from God, and thus we did evolve.

Or can someone else explain?

Thanks!

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

Ok so we got Adam and Eve. They have 2 kids: Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel. So, where did Cain get his wife?

God did it. (And he did it after the great flood.)

Also, explain how all the diversity of our species (homo sapien) can come from one man. If you say there's no diversity, look here:

http://hd.ingham.org/media/3805/head_citizenship_diversity_330x225.jpg

I'm sorry... Is that picture in the Bible? That picture isn't scripture in any copy of the King James Bible that I know of.

That said, Noah's children went out into the world after teh great flood and repopulated the Earth. The white Christians went most places and the cursed black child, Ham, went to Africa. That is why we know that God hated all non-white people. You even see it in your heathen picture you posted: It is fuilled with sad colored people and happy Christians.

Ok, all the evidence points towards evolution.

What evidence? Are you talking about Genesis I or Genesis II? I had re-read them 100 times and I don't see the word evolution in there anywhere? What I DO see if a well-documented lineage of the deswcendants of Adam that add up in ages to 6,600 years to present day. Checkmate.

We've found a closer ancestor to ours with the Chimps some weeks ago (Ardi).

So now you have MORE gaps in the fossil record! there used to be one gap where Ardi was missing. Now that Ardi is there, you have a gap before Ardi and a gap after Ardi. And you call this science?

Also if you think the universe is 6000 yrs old, well, all the evidence seems to point to 13.7 billion.

The Bible is all the evidence there is and it says 6,600 years.

Carbon dating,

Argon-Potassium dating,

Both based on isotope decay which is RANDOM. how can RANDOM information constitute evidence? Wow....some people!

lead-lead dating,

Faked.

tree-ring dating,

You obviously have been mislead. read this:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2019

God cannot lie! and thus it couldn't have been a deception from God, and thus we did evolve.

So you agree with me that if God HAD said that the universe was 13 billion years old, then he would have been lying. Great!

However, he never said that. GOD's word (The King James Bible) says it is 6,600 years old. Now as for the great riddle of the distance of the stars and the confusing presence of so many fossils (and any other evidence that contradicts the Word of God); they were all put there as a test, not as a lie. Stars in the sky and millions of fossils in the ground is not the same as God saying "the universe is 13 billion years old."

There is no contradiction and I am glad you at least admit that if God said "This is all 13 buillion years old," that it would be a lie.

YIC,

<Name to Be Determined Later>

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

Ok so we got Adam and Eve. They have 2 kids: Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel. So, where did Cain get his wife? Also, explain how all the diversity of our species (homo sapien) can come from one man. If you say there's no diversity, look here:

http://hd.ingham.org/media/3805/head...ty_330x225.jpg

Adam and Eve were people created by God, but not the only.

Let's look at Genesis 4:14-17

14Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

I put the words in bold which show that there are other people besides Adam, Eve, and Cain. So where do all these people come from, you ask? There's enough people existing to make cities!

We go back earlier to chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis which show not one, but two seperate accounts of creating humans. In Genesis 2, Adam and Eve are created.

Genesis 2:7
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

But, prior in Genesis 1, God created man (but not Adam and Eve)

Genesis 1:26-27
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Also note that in Genesis 1, human creation is done on the sixth day. In Genesis 2, human creation is done after the seventh day. Therefore these are two seperate accounts of human creation.

This solves the "Who was Cain's wife?" once and for all.

So how does a christian respond to this. Well they say God made everything look like it was here for millions of years, but nothing existed before 4004 B.C. BUT THIS CANNOT HAPPEN! Why?

Titus 1:1-2

"{1:1} Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; {1:2} In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"

AH-HA!

God cannot lie! and thus it couldn't have been a deception from God, and thus we did evolve.

Or can someone else explain?

You're assuming that because fossils and the like appear millions of years ago, God is willfully and maliciously lying to us. But, He is not. They are meant as tests of our faith.

There is also the cases where the scientists themselves fake evidence and misunderstand carbon dating, making a rock that is only six thousand years old appear six million.

I wouldn't say God is a liar; just scientists.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

Ok so we got Adam and Eve. They have 2 kids: Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel. So, where did Cain get his wife?

God did it. (And he did it after the great flood.)

Wrong. The Great Flood came much later after Cain met his wife. Cain meets his wife in Genesis 4:17. Then in Genesis 5 we are treated to a genealogy which shows that Noah is a descendent of Seth (Cain's younger brother). As a matter of fact, there are seven generations of difference between Seth and Noah.

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

I wouldn't say God is a liar; just scientists.

Just look at all those lying climate alarmist scientists who lied about climate change! God finally sought fit to expose them and prove, once and for all, that the liberal elite scientists have conspired to deceive the unsaved into believing in global warming. The only warming they should be worried abtou is how warm it will get when they are burning in hell. I wonder if they can use "Mike's Nature trick" to "hide the rise?"

Glory!

[eddieboy]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

You're assuming that because fossils and the like appear millions of years ago, God is willfully and maliciously lying to us. But, He is not. They are meant as tests of our faith.

There is also the cases where the scientists themselves genuine evidence and misunderstand carbon dating, making a rock that is only six thousand years old appear six million.

I wouldn't say God is a liar; just scientists.

OK well I'm still not convinced with the first answer, but this one is just hillarious.

You actually think they are tests to your faith to the bible?

But what God did is make things LOOK LIKE as if they were here for billions of years, therefore God is trying to deceive you in order to test your faith, but he can't do that as i proved in Titus 1:1-2, God can not lie. Therefore you are wrong and thus we did evolve. Checkmate.

bye bye

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

therefore God is trying to deceive you in order to test your faith, but he can't do that as i proved in Titus 1:1-2, God can not lie.

A lie is a false statement made witht he hope that the listener will believe it.

This test is 1) not a statement, it is a bunch of light and rocks; and 2) the evidence was not put there by God in the hopes that we would believe it. He KNEW the saved would not believe what we saw with our own eyes. He knew this from the moment he made the universe. That is what makes it so beautiful. God KNEW the saved would see through the test and that the unsaved would not. So at the deepest level, it was actually another tool in the massive set of tools that God has given us to see if WE can tell who is going to Hell. (HINT: It's you!)

bye bye

Bye! Have fun in Hell, sinner!

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

OK well I'm still not convinced with the first answer, but this one is just hillarious.

You actually think they are tests to your faith to the bible?

But what God did is make things LOOK LIKE as if they were here for billions of years, therefore God is trying to deceive you in order to test your faith, but he can't do that as i proved in Titus 1:1-2, God can not lie. Therefore you are wrong and thus we did evolve. Checkmate.

bye bye

No, you are misunderstanding me. Things may look millions of years old, but that's not due to God, that's due to scientists. There's nothing you can show me where I will think is more than six thousand years old. But, scientists have a way of framing things in their terms, to cut God out of the equation. That is why people fall for the cockamamie notions that dinosaurs existed millions of years before humans.

Also, using Scripture, we know that God cannot lie (Heb. 6:18), but He can make people believe deceptions.

Ezekiel 14:9 And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

2 Thess. 2:11 For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

That is why people like you believe lies about evolution.

[eddieboy]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

That is why people like you believe lies about evolution.

Well then, answer this: You say evolution is not possible because there was no death before sin (or the 'Fall of Man'). But that's not true. Technically Adam and Eve and ingest and digest living cells in order to survive. In other words, there was death before sin! Secondly, if you've just shown me that God actually lies, then why should I worship a lying God?

'Lies' of evolution?

You do realize these 'Lies' are currently being used in AIDS research facilities? You do realize every time you go and get a flu shot to save your butt, researchers use evolution to track down whatever strand of the flu to make the shot for? If the flu didn't evolve, then why do we give you flu shots every year? Why not just give you one for life?

'Scientists' are liars?

Whom, the ones who eradicated smallpox and polio? The ones who sent man on the moon? The ones who created effecient farming methods to feed the masses? The ones who clean your water so you can safely drink it without worrying about death? The ones who made the technology so you and I can have this conversation? The ones who built buildings so you can have a nice warm place to stay? What about the mechanical engineers who built your guns and cars? Electrical and Computer engineers who made your computers, software, cell phones, GPS, TVs, pagers, semiconductors, household appliances, etc? Doctors that save your life? 'Liars'?

I've come to conclude that you're only angry with science when it conflicts with your religious beliefs but not when it makes your life easier (just like all the other Christians). I don't care what fantasy you're living in, and I don't care what parts of science you nitpick, but don't you dare come and challenge the integrity and methodology of the scientific and engineering community when their ground-breaking discoveries conflict with your bronze-age dessert myths.

[Hank]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

Eddieboy why do you hate Jesus so much? He died for your sins and this is how you thank him?

[True Disciple]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

Well then, answer this: You say evolution is not possible because there was no death before sin (or the 'Fall of Man'). But that's not true. Technically Adam and Eve and ingest and digest living cells in order to survive. In other words, there was death before sin! Secondly, if you've just shown me that God actually lies, then why should I worship a lying God?

You do not understand that things were quite different back then. It is possible that the fruits of the garden of Eden were not "alive," and were not produced by the trees themselves, but by God to feed Adam and Eve. They were likely to be just clumps of nutrients instead of apples and bananas.
Secondly, what God did is creating fossils that seem to describe an evolutionary lineage that isn't there and creating billions times billions of photons that seem to indicate celestail bodies further than 6000 lightyears away. I completely fail to see how creating these things is equivalent to lying. It is just you interpretation of these phenomena that is wrong. I think you owe God an apology.

'Lies' of evolution?

You do realize these 'Lies' are currently being used in AIDS research facilities? You do realize every time you go and get a flu shot to save your butt, researchers use evolution to track down whatever strand of the flu to make the shot for? If the flu didn't evolve, then why do we give you flu shots every year? Why not just give you one for life?

First of all, AIDS is a divine curse, sent by God to punish homersexural filth. It is just God-hating rebellion of humanity that it tries to find a solution for it. And vaccinations are a secular conspiracy to insert harddrugs into our veins in an attempt to get us addicted to the garbage they are cultivating in Colombia. The reason we don't all die of flu is because God is protecting us from it.

'Scientists' are liars?

Whom, the ones who eradicated smallpox and polio? The ones who sent man on the moon? The ones who created effecient farming methods to feed the masses? The ones who clean your water so you can safely drink it without worrying about death? The ones who made the technology so you and I can have this conversation? The ones who built buildings so you can have a nice warm place to stay? What about the mechanical engineers who built your guns and cars? Electrical and Computer engineers who made your computers, software, cell phones, GPS, TVs, pagers, semiconductors, household appliances, etc? Doctors that save your life? 'Liars'?

Smallpox and polio were also divine curses to punish inequity. The moon landing is a hoax by NASA to indoctrinate children with the unbiblical idea that the earth would be round. Before your efficient farming methods, people relied on the Holy Spirit to feed them, and clean their water. If the internet didn't exist, I would probably be standing in your backyard right now, repeatedly hitting you over the head with my Bible to convince you of all these truths, which is a much more satisfying way of proselytizing. We had invented fire to keep us warm long before the rise of secular "science." There is no indication at all that inventors of cars and especially guns were non-christians. The other innovations that you name are unreliable tools of Satan, and Christians use them with great caution, knowing that they are going to break down any moment. And doctors do not save my life, God does. Doctors are those guys who murder unborn babies.

I've come to conclude that you're only angry with science when it conflicts with your religious beliefs but not when it makes your life easier (just like all the other Christians). I don't care what fantasy you're living in, and I don't care what parts of science you nitpick, but don't you dare come and challenge the integrity and methodology of the scientific and engineering community when their ground-breaking discoveries conflict with your bronze-age dessert myths.

In fact, none of the Biblical books treat desserts in any way, and no laws were given to Moses about how and when the Israelites should eat ice creams. And the reason we fight secular "science" is because of the satanic influence their lies have upon impressionable, young Christians. There is only one scientific book in this world, and it's called "The 1611 King James Bible." This is a collection of all truths currently known. Things which are not in this book, are either lies (like gravity and evolution) or uncertainties (like what is the stuff that makes up clouds).

Accept Christ in your heart, my friend. Satan has confounded your senses because you are a devil-worshipping atheist, but you will find that you will understand all of this when engaging in True Bible Science.

[WWJDnow]

Re: Using Scripture (and some Logic) to Disprove Creation

God cannot lie!

Where did you get that piece of nonsense from? God can't lie, but He certainly misleads people whom He doesn't want saved. Jesus said so Himself.