[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

I do consider them my rules, which is why I ask again: Were in Scripture does it say that rape is always the result of the woman dressing or acting sinfully? If you can give me that in so many words, I will cede the discussion to you.

A woman can be punished by God for acting sinfully with some rape! Here are two instances in the Bible where God, in His righteous anger, has ordered the rape of women (also, the killing of children.)

Isaiah 13:16
Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.



Zechariah 14:2
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Now, please cede the discussion.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

I do consider them my rules, which is why I ask again: Were in Scripture does it say that rape is always the result of the woman dressing or acting sinfully? If you can give me that in so many words, I will cede the discussion to you.

1Tm:2:9: In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Please post saying you have conceded.

[Psalm 51:10]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Not quite yet.

A woman can be punished by God for acting sinfully with some rape! Here are two instances in the Bible where God, in His righteous anger, has ordered the rape of women (also, the killing of children.)

Isaiah 13:16
Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.



Zechariah 14:2
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Now, please cede the discussion.

I never said that God never punishes women with rape for, as you have so aptly demonstrated, there are instances in which He does. However, many in this forum seem to be operating under the assumption that rape is always punishment for a woman's sin. I have yet to find Scriptural proof of this.

1Tm:2:9: In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Please post saying you have conceded.

I'm sorry, but while this verse is an excellent example of how a woman should dress and behave, it does not give consequences for doing otherwise. You are simply assuming that, if she does not dress modestly, she will be raped. Please do not add your own words to those of God.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

[...]I'm sorry, but while this verse is an excellent example of how a woman should dress and behave, it does not give consequences for doing otherwise.[...]

You seem about as bright as a bronze-age goatherder.

Your response gives rise to only two possibilities;

1. You expected to see your own exact words in God's Bible, which is so far-fetched that I have never seen the like and/or
2. You have no idea of the punishments inflicted by God after fair warning and imagine without evidence that they could not possibly be rape.

Are you deluded?

Concede! God has foreseen and covered your miserable objections!

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

>>Says a whole bunch of stuff refuting all of Psalm51:10's points.>>

<<Ignores my post yet again.>>

Are you going to keep ignoring my post? What was it? Did my example of David's census blow your mind? Did you finally figure out that YOU were the one arguing that we should ook at FAULT by arguing that admonition against Lust made rape the man's fault, even though the slutty behavior of teh woman happened first?

Like I said, I am tyring to be open and direct with you, but if you are going to stop talking as soon as I prove my points, I guess I will have to keep spreading God's word to others.

[James Hutchins]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

so if our 2 races were to mix we would all die?

i dont think so.

Please show me whe I said if the races mixed, we would die!

genetic diversirty is what keeps people and animals alive through evolution. if we all breed within the same gene pool then mutations start to form and the gene pool could die off because of these mutations. if their is variety then mutation is less likely to occur.

Eviloution is an outright lie. God created everything. You really need to read the Bible and get your facts straight. You are making yourself to be the fool.

also please explain what you mean by this comment:

One day, there could not no longer be nigras. Then what will we do? This is our heritage.

what will we do? what will we do about what? whats the problem?

Even a Benny would understand that. I make it simple for you.
Say the world had only four people. Two White (man and a woman), two nigras (man and a woman). If they stay within their race, there would always be Whites and nigras, right? But let them get involved with each other, the races will go away and all you'll have is have breeds. The White race will be no longer, the nigra race will be no longer. No more Christmas, no more kawannnazza. Is that what you want?

[Psalm 51:10]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

You seem about as bright as a bronze-age goatherder.

Your response gives rise to only two possibilities;

1. You expected to see your own exact words in God's Bible, which is so far-fetched that I have never seen the like and/or
2. You have no idea of the punishments inflicted by God after fair warning and imagine without evidence that they could not possibly be rape.

Are you deluded?

Concede! God has foreseen and covered your miserable objections!

Personal insults really are uncalled for.

It seems I may not have made myself very clear, and for that I apologize. I do not expect to see my own exact words in the God's Bible. However, I have spoken with a few people (though not, I believe, your good self, sir) earlier in this thread who seemed to think that, if a woman is raped, it is 100%, infallibly the case that she was raped because of her unseemly attire. It is for this last statement that I seek Biblical proof, as I happen to disagree with them.

Or perhaps you do understand what I am asking, and it is I who do not understand your replies. If this be the case, then I do crave your pardon.

[GOD=life]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Psalm, I will respond to one of your scenarios. Situation: girl was molested by baby sitter. So: parents trusted their child to some stranger for $5/hour. The stranger turned out to be a lesbian child molester. Your question: should the child marry the rapist?

Analysis of the situation:

1. The parents put their child in a very dangerous situation. When we warn about strangers potentially being molesters, we get mocked and called paranoid.

2. The rapist was a lesbian. If you choose to be immoral, why not add child molestation to the list?

3. There is no family honor to restore: the parents even paid money to the rapist because they were too lazy to take care of their own child.

4. The cited Scripture does not apply as the child is not yet of child-bearing age.

Thus, you should find a scenario in the Bible that deals with gross negligence, pederfiles and lesbians, not rape between by a man of a woman for whom marriage is possible.

Again: the advice dealt with the scenario for the OP. And a section in the Bible for that particular scenario was found. If you want to ask what the Bible says about other rape scenarios, open a new thread and stop hijacking this one.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

However, I have spoken with a few people (though not, I believe, your good self, sir) earlier in this thread who seemed to think that, if a woman is raped, it is 100%, infallibly the case that she was raped because of her unseemly attire. It is for this last statement that I seek Biblical proof, as I happen to disagree with them.

I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that. Can you show us a quote from someone where they said that?

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Blah blah blah

Do you think that people can't read this thread and see that you are completely ignoring my post? You have YET to admit your points were refuted. Must be embarrassing.

[GOD=life]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Are you going to keep ignoring my post?

It's his exit strategy. He does not want to admit defeat, because he thinks we are just ... but the Bible cannot be rewritten, so...

YIC

[Psalm 51:10]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Are you going to keep ignoring my post? What was it? Did my example of David's census blow your mind? Did you finally figure out that YOU were the one arguing that we should ook at FAULT by arguing that admonition against Lust made rape the man's fault, even though the slutty behavior of teh woman happened first?

Like I said, I am tyring to be open and direct with you, but if you are going to stop talking as soon as I prove my points, I guess I will have to keep spreading God's word to others.

I see your point with David's census, and I will grant you are correct on that front.

However, as I stated earlier, the gentleman who began this thread brought up the issue of fault when he stated that the man in the case was the victim, as he only raped her because she was dressed inappropriately. Please see my last post above (a response to Ezekiel Bathfire) for what I hope is a clear statement of my stance in this regard.

[James Dewitt]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

I see your point with David's census, and I will grant you are correct on that front.

However, as I stated earlier, the gentleman who began this thread brought up the issue of fault when he stated that the man in the case was the victim, as he only raped her because she was dressed inappropriately. Please see my last post above (a response to Ezekiel Bathfire) for what I hope is a clear statement of my stance in this regard.

So you somehow feel, that the man is not a victim, clearly we have show you both are victims

[James Hutchins]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

Psalm 51:10, can I call you Joe, Sweet!

Joe, imagine you saw a dollar on the ground in the middle of the desert. No one around, nary a foot print but your own. That dollar is not yours, you did not earn it, it is someone else's. Would you leave it there or would you pick it up and spend it. The dollar does not care either way as if it did, it would of stayed with its' owner.
In the above scenario, did you steal the dollar and should you be prosecuted or should you be allowed to keep the dollar and the original owner of it be shamed for thowing her dollars away?

[Gabriel Reproba]

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?

I see your point with David's census, and I will grant you are correct on that front.

Thank you. I am glad that as an aspiring Christian, you recognize that whether God kill's people or not...whether he punishes them or not...has NOTHING to do with whether or not they deserve it. (If you had refused to recognize this I would have been forced to reference the story of Job. God destroys the man's ENTIRE LIFE because God wanted to win a bet against Satan.)

However, as I stated earlier, the gentleman who began this thread brought up the issue of fault when he stated that the man in the case was the victim, as he only raped her because she was dressed inappropriately. Please see my last post above (a response to Ezekiel Bathfire) for what I hope is a clear statement of my stance in this regard.

I think what you are missing is that people in this thread are talking about what happened in MOST cases when this law was handed down by God. That said, I think we have provided ample statistics with sources that show that 1) many women lie about being raped, 2) ~10% of women have repeating fantasies about being raped, 3) Many many men have spent dozens of years in prison because women didn't want to admit to their whorish ways, etc...

Also, since you seem to be keen on looking at the "spirit" of rules (although I think my points about David and Job refute the concept that there can be any discernible or reliable "spirit" to the laws fo God since he will destroy innocent people if he feels like it) I direct you back, once again, to Deut. 22:

23If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Compare with ...

25But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
27For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

You can see TWO things very clearly here:

1) The SPIRIT here is that the rape victim has a duty to do EVERYTHING in her power to prevent the rape, including "crying out." Presumably this duty applies even if the rapist holds a knife to her throat and tells her "Cry out and I will kill you are your whole family." God does not give any exceptions here so it is clear that if she does not cry out, even under the threat of death to her and all her loved ones, she is just as much at fault. The spirit of God's law is clear: It is better that you and your whole family die than you be raped.

2) Notice how there are facts that are assumed in God's law? If a girl is found in the city and raped, and no-one heard it so as to help her, the law assumes this is because she did not cry out. No exceptions. This is reasonable based on the statistical improbability that a woman in a city (which were intensely crowded) and with the flimsy building material being used in those days, could cry out and not be heard by someone.

Compare to when a girl is found in the fields. God's law assumes that the girl DID cry out, even if she didn't. The assumption is clear: In the fields of God, no one can hear you scream.

Now, going with your "spirit" sentiment, if even GOD is willing to assume facts like this in his law, is it not safe to assume whoreish behavior (such as flirting, dressing against God's will, being seen in public without a male family member) induced the rape, especially with the statistics we cited and I reference above? If not, why not?