[Larry Lee]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

No brother. I know well of the depredations of the Christ Killers, but I think it is disingenuous to say that some parts of the Bible only apply to certain people and not to others.

Who among us doesn't believe that Biblical Old Testament law still applies to True Christians™ outside of circumcision and dietary laws or is 3/4 of the Holy Word merely Jewish myths?

hmmmm.. Well, technically I see what you mean, but we're not a bunch of tongue-talking Pentecostals, are we? God gave us a brain, and we should use it, as He intended us to.

We know that God loves the Joos so much that he established a covenant with them, and they are His chosen people. Unfortunately, however, the Joos often disappoint our Lord, and we -- mere Gentiles -- must pick up the slack.

The troubled relationship between God and the Joos tells us a lot about how to apply scripture to our daily lives. (After all, God lovingly burned up a large number of Joos in German ovens during WWII, didn't He? That's a fate Isaiah himself might have forewarned against, for goodness sake!) My point is simply that we Gentiles have a special relationship with our Lord Jesus, and we MUST satisfy His expectations for us.

I think my point is clear, Praise God!

[Larry Lee]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Brothers, there is no need to argue!!! I explained how all of this works in this thread:

Brother Heathen Basher, I can tell you suck deep on the meat of the Word. Tell us more about the Lord's teaching for us in this area.

[Levi Jones]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

hmmmm.. Well, technically I see what you mean, but we're not a bunch of tongue-talking Pentecostals, are we? God gave us a brain, and we should use it, as He intended us to.

Brother! I didn't know that Jesus didn't choose you for the ability of the tongues!

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Shambdilia hambila o keetsrtom! Oh, hallelujah! You are great! Yes please, Jesus fill me with Your Holy Spirit!

We call on You to fill us with the Holy Spirit right here and right now! In Jesus name!

I call upon the Holy Spirit to soften your heart like that of Pharoh against the works of his former slaves!

Oh lambta shambala nuu wey. Gambla onehoo onehoo! Let Larry Lee see his wrong ways. Oh LORD I beseech You!

[True Disciple]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Interesting, but I believe Paul even says we will be judged by our works and I see nothing about after the coming of the Millennial Kingdom here.

2 Corinthians 5:10-11
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

I admit that this Passage seems to imply that works would be important. However, I think Paul means here with "what he hath done," whether a person accepted Jesus Christ as the Lord and Saviour™ or not. It's the only way it can be fitted in with the rest of the Bible.

Honestly, Brother TD, the Epistle of James enjoys its place in the Biblical canon as a distinctly Jewish approach to True Christian™ faith and practice, as I know you know. We shouldn't forget that the Hebes of James's time were still enthralled with the responsibility of following the Law to the letter.

Well, about following the Law to the letter, didn't Jesus Himself say:

Matthew 5:17-19:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Are you suggesting that we should disobey this Passage and not follow the Law to the Letter?

Exactly! As I read your sermon, it agrees with me.

I've read it slightly differently, Brother. Though I didn't agree with Brother Basher on other parts.

The troubled relationship between God and the Joos tells us a lot about how to apply scripture to our daily lives. (After all, God lovingly burned up a large number of Joos in German ovens during WWII, didn't He? That's a fate Isaiah himself might have forewarned against, for goodness sake!) My point is simply that we Gentiles have a special relationship with our Lord Jesus, and we MUST satisfy His expectations for us.

I think my point is clear, Praise God!

Satisfy His expectations? As long as you talk about achieving Salvation™, of course. As I already said, we don't have to do anything else in principle.

Brother! I didn't know that Jesus didn't choose you for the ability of the tongues!

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Shambdilia hambila o keetsrtom! Oh, hallelujah! You are great! Yes please, Jesus fill me with Your Holy Spirit!

We call on You to fill us with the Holy Spirit right here and right now! In Jesus name!

I call upon the Holy Spirit to soften your heart like that of Pharoh against the works of his former slaves!

Oh lambta shambala nuu wey. Gambla onehoo onehoo! Let Larry Lee see his wrong ways. Oh LORD I beseech You!

Brother Levi, what is this? Are you feeling alright? Have you given in to Pentecostal heresies? Should I call an exorcist? Or do you prefer a moderator?

Brothers, this is becoming serious. One of you is advocating Salvation™ through works instead op faith, and starts behaving like a Pentecostal, while the other apparently advocates the division of the indivisible Holy KJV into parts we should and shouldn't follow. I think you both should swallow your words right now. Before the ladies discover this thread!

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Brother Levi, obviously you are referring to my sermon yesterday (Sunday) morning in which I highlighted how important faith was and that works, in itself, are meaningless.

Forgive me if this sounds rather incoherent, since I have just finished off a bottle of 15 year old Glenlivet, so I will make this is as clear as I possibly can.

Faith is the ultimate deciding factor. Works alone cannot save you. But we must remember that faith is not just saying "I believe Christ died for my sins", but living it. The true test of faith is in action, hence works. This is why I spend so much time deriding false Christians who claim to be Saved® by Jesus Christ, yet ignore the Bible and start talking about tolerance of homosexuals and doing other heinous acts.

Think of it like this: Two pilots are in airplane and it starts to nosedive. One pilot says to the other, "I have faith that we can recover this airplane" and the other pilot nods in agreement. But, the first pilot yanks control of the steering wheel and pulls it up just in time, while the second pilot is busy readying his parachute.

Both pilots proclaimed faith that they could recover the airplane. But which pilot truly believed the airplane could recover?

A True Christian™ Saved® by faith will live their very lives in accordance to what God commands of us. They will not sin. The Bible tells us this.

1st John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Therefore, those who abide in Christ through faith, will not sin. Their faith determines their works.

What the book of James is pointing out is there are false Christians out there who claim to be Saved® by faith, but their actions speak otherwise. Therefore the real Christians are the ones who show it through works and not just paying lip service.

It's a rather complicated subject, and admittedly a junior pastor like you has a lot to learn. I hope this has been informative.

[Larry Lee]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Brothers, this is becoming serious. One of you is advocating Salvation™ through works instead op faith, and starts behaving like a Pentecostal,

That is indeed strange, even for Brother Levi. Although I have to say, it's fascinating to witness someone actually posting in tongues, which is a first for this Godly Forum -- Not that I endorse such apostate behavior, because I don't, but still, you have to wonder (don't you, too, feel the tuggings of the Holy Spirit on your heart strings?) How does Levi do it, and is it from God? Will no one offer up a translation for us? The gifts of the Spirit are wondrous blessings, and I hope Reverend Jim will preach on them soon.

while the other apparently advocates the division of the indivisible Holy KJV into parts we should and shouldn't follow. I think you both should swallow your words right now.

Brother, you sound like you're naive enough to put new wine into old wineskins! Does God's New Covenant with us mean nothing to you?

[Larry Lee]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Think of it like this: Two pilots are in airplane and it starts to nosedive. One pilot says to the other, "I have faith that we can recover this airplane" and the other pilot nods in agreement. But, the first pilot yanks control of the steering wheel and pulls it up just in time, while the second pilot is busy readying his parachute.

Both pilots proclaimed faith that they could recover the airplane. But which pilot truly believed the airplane could recover?

Brother! I heard Oral Roberts use that very analogy. I wonder is it too late for you collect a royalty payment from him?

That aside, your teaching on "faith versus works" has the air-tight self-assurance of the self-important, although I know you're anything but that, my dear friend. It's the kind of teaching that Jesus Himself heard when he went to the Temple. When He was challenged there by the chief priests and the elders of the people, what did He say to them? "By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority" (Matthew 21:23)? I rather think it was man's worldly know-it-all-ness that Jesus found most offensive in how the chief priests conducted themselves.

[True Disciple]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Faith is the ultimate deciding factor. Works alone cannot save you. But we must remember that faith is not just saying "I believe Christ died for my sins", but living it. The true test of faith is in action, hence works. This is why I spend so much time deriding false Christians who claim to be Saved® by Jesus Christ, yet ignore the Bible and start talking about tolerance of homosexuals and doing other heinous acts.

I fullheartedly agree with you here, Reverend! The relationship between faith and works is very subtle and complex, but you did a good job capturing the essence here.

A True Christian™ Saved® by faith will live their very lives in accordance to what God commands of us. They will not sin. The Bible tells us this.

1st John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Therefore, those who abide in Christ through faith, will not sin. Their faith determines their works.

Well, though I think you are generally right here, I think we should consider the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross in this context.

Couldn't this just mean that Saved(r) People cannot sin, because Jesus died for their sins? I always read this as meaning: True Christians(tm) cannot sin, because anything they do that normally would be considered sin, is not sin in the Eyes of God, as the Blood of the Lamb cleanses them from sin, before these sins even were committed!

Therefore, if a True Christian(tm) would, for example, commit murder, it is no sin, as the sin is instantaneously removed by the cleansing Blood of Jesus. As a result of this, the murder never was sin in the Eyes of God, as it was redeemed before it was committed.

That is indeed strange, even for Brother Levi. Although I have to say, it's fascinating to witness someone actually posting in tongues, which is a first for this Godly Forum -- Not that I endorse such apostate behavior, because I don't, but still, you have to wonder (don't you, too, feel the tuggings of the Holy Spirit on your heart strings?) How does Levi do it, and is it from God? Will no one offer up a translation for us? The gifts of the Spirit are wondrous blessings, and I hope Reverend Jim will preach on them soon.

Well, there is something to be said for that. As a Junior Researcher at the Landover University, I have some rudimentary knowledge of exorcism, and one of the main techniques to detect demonic messages in text is by playing it backwards. Maybe the same works for speaking in tongues? We would then get:

Shambdilia hambila o keetsrtom! ==> Motrsteek o alibmah ailidbmahs!

and

Oh lambta shambala nuu wey. Gambla onehoo onehoo! ==> Ooheno ooheno albmag! Yew uun alabmahs atbmal ho.


Hmm, that still doesn't make sense. Any ideas?

Brother, you sound like you're naive enough to put new wine into old wineskins! Does God's New Covenant with us mean nothing to you?

Yes, of course it does! The Bible makes it abundantly clear that the animal sacrifices practiced by the Israelites in the Old Testament were symbolic for the coming Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross. Therefore, we do not have to sacrific animals anymore to ask God for forgiveness, as it is redundant, now that Jesus has died on the Cross.

But furthermore, the Words of Jesus are still very clear:

Matthew 5:17:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

That aside, your teaching on "faith versus works" has the air-tight self-assurance of the self-important, although I know you're anything but that, my dear friend. It's the kind of teaching that Jesus Himself heard when he went to the Temple. When He was challenged there by the chief priests and the elders of the people, what did He say to them? "By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority" (Matthew 21:23)? I rather think it was man's worldly know-it-all-ness that Jesus found most offensive in how the chief priests conducted themselves.

I must disagree here, Brother. Jesus made it abundantly clear that He denounced the pharisees for their hypocrisy, in practicing the Law when it suited them, and ignoring the Law at other times:

Matthew 23:23-24:
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

I can't recall any Verse in which Jesus denounces the Pharisees solely because of their "know-it-allness," He always gives their Scriptural incorrectness and hypocrisy in selectively applying the Law as motivations for His Words. But please enlighten me if I'm incorrect about that.

So, Rev. Jim can't be compared with the Pharisees solely on basis of his tone. If Rev. Jim is Scripturally incorrect (and this might very well be), than there can be a ground for this comparison.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Gentlemen, I think we're all overlooking something here. We are justified by predestination:

Romans 8:29-30: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Predestination is both necessary and sufficient for faith:

John 6:44-45: No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Acts 13:48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

The same is true for works, since God in His sovereign majesty can make you a good person or a bad person in order to glorify Himself:

Romans 9:17-24: For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So faith and works are both the results of predestination.

[Larry Lee]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

I can't recall any Verse in which Jesus denounces the Pharisees solely because of their "know-it-allness," He always gives their Scriptural incorrectness and hypocrisy in selectively applying the Law as motivations for His Words. But please enlighten me if I'm incorrect about that.

So, Rev. Jim can't be compared with the Pharisees solely on basis of his tone. If Rev. Jim is Scripturally incorrect (and this might very well be), than there can be a ground for this comparison.

My goodness. What are they teaching you youngsters at Landover Victory Bible College these days?

Jesus deployed a three-pronged attack on Pharisaic authority. It's why the Pharisees hated and feared Him so much!

Now, it's certainly true, as you indicated, that Jesus's coup de grâce was His attack on Pharisaic hypocrisy. But, Jesus skillfully worked up to that finishing blow – one that left the Pharisees writhing in a bloody heap (metaphorically speaking) on the Temple floor and gnashing their teeth like demons (metaphorically speaking) before Him.

Just ask yourself: Would a simple charge of "not practicing what you preach" have so derailed the Pharisees that they would have wanted to kill Jesus because of it? The answer is obviously "No." The Pharisees were the chief priests and elders of the people. They had been accused of hypocrisy many times (you can be sure of that, because such a charge goes hand-in-hand with any leadership role), so Jesus's accusations were nothing new, as such, to the Pharisees.

However, prior to Jesus having accused the Pharisees of hypocrisy, we learn from Matthew 21 that Jesus: (1) condemned Pharisaic "know-it-all-ness", and (2) condemned the Pharisees for playing towards the sentiments of the crowd, rather than upholding God's righteousness.

Let's work backwards through Matthew 21 (although I have to make this quick, because one of Jim's girls is coming over to massage my perineal muscle group, which is aching for relief today – I'm sure I'm not the only one whose perineal requires periodic attention).

OK, in Matthew 21:24-27, we read:

[24] And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
[25] The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
[26] But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
[27] And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

Notice how eloquently Jesus indicts and condemns the Pharisees for gauging their concept of righteousness based on popular opinion. Jesus lays out their deceitful machinations for all to see!

Earlier in Matthew 21, Jesus took on Pharisaic "know-it-all-ness", as I described in my earlier post – but let's dig into the scripture and see what we find.

Interestingly enough we read how Jesus cursed the fig tree (Matthew 21:18-21):

[18] Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
[19] And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
[20] And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
[21] Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

He he he, What a lord our Lord is! And what better demonstration could He have possibly used to illustrate the barrenness of Pharisaic "knowledge".

After smiting the fig tree and thereby challenging the Pharisee's knowledge of God, Jesus went to the Temple, where he made it perfectly clear that the Pharisees' self-importance didn't phase Him (Matthew 21:22-27). The Baptism of John, indeed!

To recap: (1) Smite the fig tree and illustrate the Pharisees' empty “know-it-all-ness”; (2) condemn the Pharisees for bowing to the crowd, rather than to God; and (3) Reveal the depth of Pharisaic hypocrisy.

The Pharisees didn't stand a chance – and they killed our sweet Lord in retaliation.

Well, Uma just arrived, so I need to go.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Salvation™ can only be by faith. Anything else is a bolt-on, which may be pleasant but is not essential. I think the difficulty in “works” here lies in the definition of “works”, what do you think it means? And in answering that, do you not show that you are reciting your opinion and not the Word of The Lord?

On the other hand, we all know the meaning of faith. Consider 2Corinthians

2Co:10:7: Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Are not works things that have an outward appearance, whereas faith has none? Does Matthew 23 feel that works are good?

M't:23:5: But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

And has anyone mentioned: Ga:3:2: This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

It must be clear, heaven would be open to those who did not believe if works were at all an issue, and this is obviously not so.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Gentlemen, I think we're all overlooking something here. We are justified by predestination:[...]

I never thought I would see myself writing this Pastor Peters, but I am outraged. Your stance brings you nigh to the heresy of Calvinism and makes a mockery of free will.

My only concession is that God may well have create one or two souls in a predestined manner, but, surely we are here speaking of the vast majority of mankind and not some prophet for whom different rules apply (e.g. Moses of Elijah.)

[True Disciple]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Gentlemen, I think we're all overlooking something here. We are justified by predestination:

Romans 8:29-30: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

I don't agree with you here, dear Pastor. I think "predestination" in the Bible means the purpose God has for every person. However, it is our choice whether we fulfill that purpose; we are all predestined for a place in Heaven, but we can choose Hell if we want to. The Scripture you quote reads:

and whom he called, them he also justified

But Scripture also says:

Matthew 22:14:
For many are called, but few are chosen.

This clearly implies that we are not justified if we do not answer His calls, in which case we are not "chosen." So, though we are all predestined for a place in Heaven, God gave us the choice to go to Hell instead.

Just ask yourself: Would a simple charge of "not practicing what you preach" have so derailed the Pharisees that they would have wanted to kill Jesus because of it? The answer is obviously "No." The Pharisees were the chief priests and elders of the people. They had been accused of hypocrisy many times (you can be sure of that, because such a charge goes hand-in-hand with any leadership role), so Jesus's accusations were nothing new, as such, to the Pharisees.

Brother Larry, surely you can't be serious?

Scripture is very clear that the Pharisees desired to kill Jesus, but didn't dare to do that because of the crowd.

And why was Jesus such a threat to them that they wanted to kill him? Obviously, He wasn't a threat solely because He called them hypocrites, but He definitely was a threat because a large part of the people preferred Him over the Pharisees! They were simply afraid to lose their privileged position in society! That's such a basic, well-known fact that your ignorance of it makes me wonder where you ever did Bible College, or how you ever could have earned your degrees.

However, prior to Jesus having accused the Pharisees of hypocrisy, we learn from Matthew 21 that Jesus: (1) condemned Pharisaic "know-it-all-ness"

This is completely absurd. I don't know which demonic Bible translation you are referring to, Brother, but mine (1611 KJV) doesn't support this statement anywhere in Matthew 21.

and (2) condemned the Pharisees for playing towards the sentiments of the crowd, rather than upholding God's righteousness.

OK, in Matthew 21:24-27, we read:Notice how eloquently Jesus indicts and condemns the Pharisees for gauging their concept of righteousness based on popular opinion. Jesus lays out their deceitful machinations for all to see!

This is undoubtedly true. However, it is not different from my argument: that Jesus condemned the Pharisees mainly because they didn't apply the Law correctly in all cases. Why they did so (to retain their popularity) is unimportant; the point is just that they did so.

Interestingly enough we read how Jesus cursed the fig tree (Matthew 21:18-21): He he he, What a lord our Lord is! And what better demonstration could He have possibly used to illustrate the barrenness of Pharisaic "knowledge".

After smiting the fig tree and thereby challenging the Pharisee's knowledge of God, Jesus went to the Temple, where he made it perfectly clear that the Pharisees' self-importance didn't phase Him (Matthew 21:22-27). The Baptism of John, indeed!

To recap: (1) Smite the fig tree and illustrate the Pharisees' empty “know-it-all-ness”; (2) condemn the Pharisees for bowing to the crowd, rather than to God; and (3) Reveal the depth of Pharisaic hypocrisy.

You haven't given a single argument to support why He would smite the fig tree to illustrate the Pharisees' "know-it-allness." He did it to illustrate the barren unfruitfulness of the teachings of the Pharisees, which was barren and unfruitful because they had corrupted the Law, not because of a supposed "know-it-allness." Every True Christian™ knows that.

And let's not forget why we started about the Pharisees: because you compared Rev. Jim to them, because of his "know-it-allness." However, there is a large difference between the Scripturally correct know-it-allness of Rev. Jim and the Scripturally incorrect know-it-allness of the Pharisees, as this Passage as well makes it clear that it was not the know-it-allness which irked Jesus; it was the Scriptural incorrectness. How can you possibly deny that?

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

Your stance brings you nigh to the heresy of Calvinism and makes a mockery of free will.

I'm sorry, but what free will? I don't see how any will except God's is involved.

John 1:12-13: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 9:16: So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I don't agree with you here, dear Pastor. I think "predestination" in the Bible means the purpose God has for every person. However, it is our choice whether we fulfill that purpose; we are all predestined for a place in Heaven, but we can choose Hell if we want to.

I'm sorry, Brother, but I don't follow you. If God has picked you to be a Christian, you will be a Christian:

John 6:37-39: All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

It's completely up to the Father.

[Father Peter Rast]

Re: I took slight umbrage with Rev. Jim's sermon "Faith vs Works"

What, no mention of sanctifying grace through the holy sacraments?