[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Australia

Greetings again Trevor (I Man Rastafari), Pastor Ezekiel, Alan and Ezekiel Bathfire,

It is your friend Trevor from Jamaica. The King James Bible is the very word of Jah without any changes. Other versions have subtle changes and are not suitable. This King James Version was first ordered by King James of Scotland and England who was a Black man. You may not believe that King James was a Black man but it is on YouTube so you know it must be true. Also these Caucasians are not Calvinists. They are Baptists.

You may like to consider the early history of the Anabaptists, the General Baptists and the Particular Baptists. I am not sure what the Baptists believe today, but I assume there is a range of opinions. You may like to answer the following exercise as well as Alan WITHOUT using any reference books or other Bible translations.

What is the meaning of the two words “abroad” and “tell” in the following:
Jeremiah 6:11 (KJV): Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.
Psalm 48:12 (KJV): Walk about Zion, and go round about her: tell the towers thereof.

Hello Bruce;

A few of my mates are called Bruce, but you seem to be confused. Possibly you are referring to the title that someone has recently added to my Avatar, and it may not be appropriate (Bruce Lee? – I am not that active) even though it might have been meant to “lighten” things. Someone also altered my personal profile with an inappropriate comment, but I was able to delete this. I hope it does not occur again. What security do you have on this forum or is this part of the Administrative policy?

Also I may accept the title “Unsaved trash”, and you may like to leave that title in position if you know that I suffer from partial autism and ATD, and have had two severe schizophrenic episodes 30 years ago and suffer and struggle to maintain balance. But I think your label may give some indication of the character of this forum. One of these days you may offend someone, and the Landover Baptist Church is not the sole arbiter of who is or who is not saved. I think we need to be careful of how we deal with the Holy Things as per example of Nadad and Abihu, and Uzziah.

Please have the courtesy to read the sermon that I left you the link for above. You sound like a very confused person, and I'd like to help set you straight.

Yes I previously read your article and agreed with much of what you stated. As this is the Introduction Forum I did not think I would be allowed to respond in detail as yet. Also I have two books on the subject, and recently my 2nd cousin wrote a series of 4 articles to a magazine, and he strongly recommended the KJV.

I have also briefly alluded to the Bible in a Year forum, and especially Day 202 Isaiah 4-6. I consider the concluding comments to be speaking evil of Jesus and the Father, but no one has commented upon this or corrected this in the Last Six Years. Perhaps this is another indication of the character of this Forum, and possibly this is sufficient for me to leave before I am banned. Also I find some of your icons offensive young man and some of your elders in your church should suggest a better course.

I use the 1611 KJV, and no I don't use reference books.
I can't say what the official position of the Landover Baptist Church is as I am also new.

I suggest then that you are the poorer for not using reference books. I suggest that if you are new that you should find out, and not press a narrow view on a new comer as myself. We all have our pet theories, but we should try to play a harmony, not pluck one string all the time. Possibly it is not the official line of the church but Pastor Ezekiel is one advocate. Perhaps he could enlighten us if the door is shut to those who use other Bibles in conjunction with the KJV to help understand some verses and words, and also use some reference books such as Strong’s and Englishman’s for a start. I could list a few others that are helpful. Maybe only “Unsaved Trash” use reference books.

You're the one who brought up Isaiah 6 and Romans 8 and then you get upset when people point out what they actually say.

I have many things that I could discuss on Isaiah 6 and Romans 8, but this is the Introduction Forum. Perhaps you missed why I really mentioned Romans 7 and 8 in the first place, but one forum member possibly accepted what I suggested as he did not further respond.

I now know that you have created your own god and worship yourself.

My friend, you are damned.

I appreciate the sincerity of your pronouncement. I appeal to a higher authority.

Kind regards
Trevor

2 Peter 1:20-21 (NKJV): 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (mg or origin), 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:20-21 (NET): 20 Above all, you do well if you recognize this: No prophecy of scripture ever comes about by the prophet’s own imagination, 21 for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

NET Bible Translator’s Note: The γάρ (gar) at the beginning of v. 21 gives the basis for the truth of the proposition in v. 20. The connection that makes the most satisfactory sense is that prophets did not invent their own prophecies (v. 20), for their impulse for prophesying came from God (v. 21).

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Australia

You may like to answer the following exercise as well as Alan WITHOUT using any reference books or other Bible translations.

What is the meaning of the two words “abroad” and “tell” in the following:
Jeremiah 6:11 (KJV): Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.
Psalm 48:12 (KJV): Walk about Zion, and go round about her: tell the towers thereof.

I'm actually not going to play games with you, Trevor. You've flat-out denied what God's word says. Perhaps you could first tell me what words like "he hardened Pharaoh's heart" and "he hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart" mean without looking up a reference book.

One thing you said earlier caught my eye just now, though.

Because the Bible in a year comments on Isaiah 6 expressed similar sentiments to what you have now stated, that God arbitrarily blinds and then punishes certain individuals. This is not the God I worship.

Romans 9 makes God's choice sound pretty arbitrary.

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Answer me this: if everyone is born evil (Psalm 51:5) and incapable of doing good (Jeremiah 13:23), how can God's choice be anything other than arbitrary? He can't make a choice based on any good qualities we possess because according to the Bible, we don't have any.

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings from Australia

I suggest then that you are the poorer for not using reference books. I suggest that if you are new that you should find out, and not press a narrow view on a new comer as myself. We all have our pet theories, but we should try to play a harmony, not pluck one string all the time. Possibly it is not the official line of the church but Pastor Ezekiel is one advocate. Perhaps he could enlighten us if the door is shut to those who use other Bibles in conjunction with the KJV to help understand some verses and words, and also use some reference books such as Strong’s and Englishman’s for a start. I could list a few others that are helpful. Maybe only “Unsaved Trash” use reference books.

I have a question: why do you think that reference books are necessary? Do you believe in a God who inspired the Bible writers' to compose the Good Life Manual in a language akin to the US tax code - so obscure that it cannot be understood without the help of reference books, a dictionary, and a professional accountant?

That would be a rather cruel God, don't you think?

I don't know what Bible you read, dear, but my KJV is written in plain, easy to understand language.

Also, you need to remember that reference books were written by people with their own agendas, who want you to understand the Bible the way they choose, instead of what it really says.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Australia

Greetings again Alan and Greetings Basilissa, plus additional comments to Pastor Ezekiel on his “sermon”,

I'm actually not going to play games with you, Trevor. You've flat-out denied what God's word says.

I was not trying to play games, but this was the basis for an exercise that a group of 10 senior brethren and sisters did when we were discussing the life of Abraham. The subject of some of the archaic words in the KJV was mentioned, and the group was asked to look up Jeremiah 6:11 and Psalm 48:12 and to discuss the meaning of the words abroad and tell in those verses. The general consensus was that “abroad” could represent overseas, and “tell” meant describe or similar, and both of these descriptions are in line with modern usage. The problem with both of these words in these contexts is that the context may help, but does NOT really fix the true meaning of the words.

We then went back to our main subject, the life of Abraham, and looked at a well-known verse where both the words “tell” and “abroad” are used, but here the context does help us to fix the meaning of the words.
Genesis 15:5-6 (KJV): 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Here “abroad” means outside the tent and in an open space, while “tell” and “number” are both the same Hebrew word and means count as rendered in most newer translations.

Thus looking again at Jeremiah 6:11 “abroad” can be understood as “outside”, or “in the streets”, and in Psalm 48:12 “tell” can be understood as “count”. Most modern translations agree with these more modern usage of the words, while the KJV “abroad” and “tell” can be considered to be Old English.

Perhaps you could first tell me what words like "he hardened Pharaoh's heart" and "he hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart" mean without looking up a reference book.

I still regard the hardening of hearts is a gradual process and Matthew’s rendition helps to understand this concept..

Romans 9 makes God's choice sound pretty arbitrary.
Answer me this: if everyone is born evil (Psalm 51:5) and incapable of doing good (Jeremiah 13:23), how can God's choice be anything other than arbitrary? He can't make a choice based on any good qualities we possess because according to the Bible, we don't have any.

I do not accept what I consider the extreme of double predestination, that some are predestined from eternity to salvation, and the vast majority are predestined to damnation and burning in hell for eternity, despite anything they are able to respond to, in response to the preaching of the gospel and the humbling circumstances of life. As I said before, this is not the God I serve and love.

The God I serve is the God that calls ALL to respond to His Love:
John 3:14-17 (KJV): 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

I have a question: why do you think that reference books are necessary?

They are not necessary, but they are helpful. Strong’s and Englishman’s and possibly other resources would have solved the “Abroad” and “Tell” question reasonably fast and accurately.

I don't know what Bible you read, dear, but my KJV is written in plain, easy to understand language. Also, you need to remember that reference books were written by people with their own agendas, who want you to understand the Bible the way they choose, instead of what it really says.

Yes I mostly use the KJV, but in a few days I will have finished reading the OT once and NT twice over 3 years using an Interlinear RV/KJV, and this has helped me to appreciate the limitations of both the RV and the KJV. All reference books need to be used with caution to avoid any bias. We have been given some ability to discern this.

Pastor Ezekiel, I have read your thread (“sermon”) again. The following is the heading, and the first sentence:

Seven easy ways to tell the True Bible from the false ones
You don't need to be a scholar to tell which Bible is the true one.

I consider that “True” Bible and “false” ones, and “which Bible is the true one” is a false premise. I was encouraged that another Pastor on this forum prefers the KJV, but is not KJV only:

Look up the following verses for me in the NIV, please.
{Then follows a list of relevant verses, and most probably I would agree with the KJV of most}
I rest my case.
If the KJV is imperfect, the NIV is a travesty.

I'm not a KJV only advocate. I'm a KJV primacy advocate. It's still the best. It's infinitely superior to the NIV still to this day.
I might let you slide on the NASB, but the NIV is an abomination.

Kind regards
Trevor

2 Peter 1:20-21 (NKJV): 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (mg or origin), 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (NET): 20 Above all, you do well if you recognize this: No prophecy of scripture ever comes about by the prophet’s own imagination, 21 for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

NET Bible Translator’s Note: The γάρ (gar) at the beginning of v. 21 gives the basis for the truth of the proposition in v. 20. The connection that makes the most satisfactory sense is that prophets did not invent their own prophecies (v. 20), for their impulse for prophesying came from God (v. 21).

2 Peter 1:20-21 (WBC): 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture derives from the prophet’s own interpretation, 21because prophecy never came by the impulse of man, but men impelled by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

A text without a context is a pretext.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Austria

I do not take kindly to the latest description on my Avatar.

I have also corrwected again my location, as it has been interfered with by someone with Administrative ability to alter the User CP details

My Location is: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Ausralia

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Austria

I do not take kindly to the latest description on my Avatar.

I have also corrected again my location, as it has been interfered with by someone with Administrative ability to alter the User CP details

My Location is: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Ausralia

I made a spelling mistake in my previous post, now adjusted.

The Avatar Picture is not the Picture that I submitted on my User CP.

Is this treatment the policy of this forum?

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Greetings from Austria

My Location is: Lake Macquarie, NSW, Ausralia

Dear Sinner,

There is no need to shout. However, your orthography is most confusing. Where exactly is "Ausralia"? "Aus" is the Austrian preposition that means "from" in American."Ralia" or "se ralia" seems to be Romanian (papist language?) for "to rally".

"From rallying" something? Whither from thence? I'm afraid you make no sense, dear friend. Of course, that is the burden all humans bear.

Genesis 11:7
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Australia

I do not accept what I consider the extreme of double predestination, that some are predestined from eternity to salvation, and the vast majority are predestined to damnation and burning in hell for eternity.

Just think about what you're saying. Is there any alternative beside heaven or hell? If God has chosen some to be saved, He has as good as chosen everyone else to go to hell. Even if what you're saying is true, which it's not (see verses below).

Romans 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Romans 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

The God I serve is the God that calls ALL to respond to His Love.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Greetings from Austria

I have also corrwected again my location,

Dear Sinner,

There is no need to shout.

Brother Elmer,

Note Trevor's earlier post. I think he may have a speech impediment and is a little embarrassed. He could be deaf. People who are deaf often speak strangely.

Trevor,

I think you show some promise as far as becoming a Christian is concerned. Please do not take Brother Elmer's words too hard.

I will pray for you tonight, and ask that God might banish the demons of disability from your soul.

I appreciate the sincerity of your pronouncement. I appeal to a higher authority.

To be frank, at the moment, I don't think you do. But, as I say, there is hope. Mr Swallows seems to be guiding you well - read, mark and inwardly digest his words.

[Basilissa]

Re: Greetings from Austria

There is no need to shout. However, your orthography is most confusing. Where exactly is "Ausralia"? "Aus" is the Austrian preposition that means "from" in American."Ralia" or "se ralia" seems to be Romanian (papist language?) for "to rally".

Dear Brother Elmer,

Based on my very limited knowledge of the Polish language, "sra" is an extremely impolite way of saying "he/she poops." (I think you can imagine a more literal translation, but it is not a word that a True Christian lady like me would use). I suppose this poor thing is trying to communicate that he/she/it lives in a country so bad that its proper name should be, uh, you know, another way to say "Craplandia"?

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Australia

Greetings again Elmer G White, Alan and Ezekiel Bathfire,

Dear Sinner, There is no need to shout. However, your orthography is most confusing. Where exactly is "Ausralia"? "Aus" is the Austrian preposition that means "from" in American."Ralia" or "se ralia" seems to be Romanian (papist language?) for "to rally".

I bow to your analytical mind, but what you have stated is a path that I do not want to really follow, as my mind is unstable enough.

I appreciate the fact that someone with Administrative ability has fixed the title of this thread to “Greetings from Australia” which it was originally, and thus it appears that my “shouting” did have some effect. But despite my “shouting” concerning my Avatar and the comment adjacent to it, this has not been fixed. Also now an Icon has been added that perhaps primarily discredits this forum as it seems to be an attempt to cast a slur at me and to other residents of Australia.

I do not mind the first icon, showing a kangaroo, as it is one of our national symbols. Possibly even here, because of all that has transpired I am starting to get suspicious, that there is some sinister message even in this icon.

Speaking of Icons, I notice that part of your qualifications is 4 years of Bible College. What I have seen so far on this forum, I question whether the true teaching and understanding of the Bible is conveyed in these courses. A prime example is the closing comments on the Bible in a Year forum, Day 202 Isaiah 4-6, especially regarding Isaiah 5 and 6. The writer has also attended the Bible College for four years. Despite 705 Views, no one on this forum has seen fit to correct his comments in the last 6 years, and yet many seem to have attended your or similar “Bible College” – same icons at least.

You address me as “Dear Sinner” and I now also note another feature of my “profile”. I was originally labeled as “TrevorL is under investigation – suspected to be Unsaved Trash”, but now I have progressed, or failed, or been reassessed as “TrevorL is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation”. Is this demand for tithing a ruse to intimidate the vulnerable, and to seduce the gullible? And as you addressed me as “Dear Sinner” are you on the Pay List when someone succumbs to this treachery?

Also seeing you are so good with dividing words, is “Aeternal” a typo, or a special word coined by Landover to condemn those who have not coughed up the cash when they have only encountered the Landover Baptist Church for the first time in the last two weeks? Whoops, I was about to respond to Ezekiel and now notice that he has a Green Icon with a big $ sign in the middle. I may be Bathed in Fire.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

At least we agree on this one.

I think you show some promise as far as becoming a Christian is concerned. But, as I say, there is hope. Mr Swallows seems to be guiding you well - read, mark and inwardly digest his words.

Mr Swallows LP record seems to be stuck in the same groove, even though I have tried to move the needle a few times. I assume that if I cough up the money I will become “a true Landover Christian”.

You seem to have a fierce appearance, and in my over-imagination (part of my condition) I suspected that you are Pastor Ezekiel’s father. I read some of his Icons, and he seems to be a witch-hunter. I have watched only in the last few weeks the BBC series “Inquisition”, and the last session was on witch-hunting in England during King James era. I imagined like the episode that Pastor Ezekiel was the one who caught the non-conformists and widows, who were among some of those that suffered and were dispossessed for monetary gain. They were tortured until forced to "confess" or in other words preferred to die rather than endure any more. Then after Elmer’s type of breaking up words, you were in charge of throwing them into the village pond or “Bath” until they drowned, or setting the torch on them “Fire”, though some were slowly hanged or lynched.

Kind regards
Trevor


2 Peter 1:20-21 (NKJV): 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (mg or origin), 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (NET): 20 Above all, you do well if you recognize this: No prophecy of scripture ever comes about by the prophet’s own imagination, 21 for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

NET Bible Translator’s Note: The γάρ (gar) at the beginning of v. 21 gives the basis for the truth of the proposition in v. 20. The connection that makes the most satisfactory sense is that prophets did not invent their own prophecies (v. 20), for their impulse for prophesying came from God (v. 21).

2 Peter 1:20-21 (WBC): 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture derives from the prophet’s own interpretation, 21because prophecy never came by the impulse of man, but men impelled by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

A text without a context is a pretext.

No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (or origin, margin). This statement has given rise to a great variety of interpretations. Some are absurd, such as the view that interpretation of the Bible is the right of the church alone and that individuals should not study it! (Believer’s Bible Commentary)

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Australia

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

At least we agree on this one.

I like the parable of the wedding banquet (Matthew 22:1-14). The king invites people to his son's wedding, but they don't want to come, so he kills them (v 7) and arbitrarily brings people in off the street, "both bad and good" (v 10). The king doesn't like one of the people dragged in off the street because he's not dressed for the occasion, so he chooses to "cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 22:13). I probably don't need to tell you that the king is God and the outer darkness is hell. I think the parable illustrates very well what I've been telling you.

[TrevorL]

Re: Greetings from Australia

Greetings again Alan,

I like the parable of the wedding banquet (Matthew 22:1-14). The king invites people to his son's wedding, but they don't want to come, so he kills them (v 7) and arbitrarily brings people in off the street, "both bad and good" (v 10). The king doesn't like one of the people dragged in off the street because he's not dressed for the occasion, so he chooses to "cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 22:13). I probably don't need to tell you that the king is God and the outer darkness is hell. I think the parable illustrates very well what I've been telling you.

But the bad and good need to respond to the gracious call and adjust their way of life accordingly. Where I disagree with extreme or hyper predestination is that people have a choice, they have the capacity to respond to the gospel as illustrated by John 3:14-17 that I quoted earlier.

This ability to choose is also illustrated in the following, and in many respects this is very similar to Matthew 22:14:
Matthew 7:13-14 (KJV): 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Now if you notice the occasion, multitudes had followed Jesus, many because of his miracles, but he ascended a mount. Those on the outside of the crowd, seeking miracles, possibly could not hear all the words clearly – they were waiting for the next spectacular miracle.

Others drew closer so they could hear – surely if he can do miracles he can instruct us in the ways of God. But those who were completely convinced that this was Messiah drew near so that not one word would fall to the ground unheeded and treasured.
Matthew 5:1 (KJV): And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

Matthew 7:24-27 (KJV): 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Kind regards
Trevor

No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation (or origin, margin). This statement has given rise to a great variety of interpretations. Some are absurd, such as the view that interpretation of the Bible is the right of the church alone and that individuals should not study it! (Believer’s Bible Commentary)

[Alan Swallows Waiting for Email Confirmation]

Re: Greetings from Australia

But the bad and good need to respond to the gracious call and adjust their way of life accordingly. Where I disagree with extreme or hyper predestination is that people have a choice, they have the capacity to respond to the gospel as illustrated by John 3:14-17 that I quoted earlier.

You seem to be assuming that just because God has called everyone, everyone is free to come to Him. That is not the God I worship and serve.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus' disciples did not choose to follow Him.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jesus even chose Judas on purpose.

John 6:70-71: 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Your will in the matter has nothing to do with it.

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

You can't say people choose to follow God without flat-out contradicting the Bible. "Ye have not chosen" cannot be reconciled with "Ye have chosen." "It is not of him that willeth" cannot be reconciled with "it is of him that willeth." "No man can come unto me except the Father draw him" cannot be reconciled with "any man can come unto me."

[Alvin Moss]

Re: Greetings from Ausralia

Trevor, I heard on the evening news tonight that Austria is on fire. How long do you think it will be before the fire gets to your neighborhood? God must be very angry to burn up your whole island. Once the whole place is flaming, there is no place to go. You may have to swim out in the ocean with the sharks and the Indonesian illegal aliens. I'm glad Austria is a long way from America, because we have enough trouble with the Mexicans swimming over here without Austrians and Indonesians.