[Basilissa]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

concerning 1-corinthians 10:23-27
-
I have read both sides of the argument.
I know both sides of the argument.
Therefore I need to figure out if one is correct, or if both can be correct.

Dear Gilbert,

First, thank you for adhering to general rules of grammar and not ending all sentences with extra periods (it did hurt my eyes).

Second, one of the Pastors probably should weigh on this, but as a True Christian™ I can tell you that of course both are correct! All of the Holy Bible is the True Word of God and God would never contradict Himself, would He now?

Isaiah 66:15-17 makes it clear that those eating unclean THINGS will become toast, when the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots.
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So Is Isaiah correct or is Paul correct ??

They are both correct. So is Peter when he recalls his vision in Acts 10:9-16. May I recommend that you read what has been written on this subject in the Landover Bible commentary?

Isaiah 66
Acts 10
1 Corinthians 10

Most of your doubts have been addressed there.

I will pray that you understand that there are NO CONTRADICTIONS in the Bible.

[docscience]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

to Des ---

"because the end days are nigh upon us!"
"the teachings of the paganistic Pestertarians."

Thou has well said that the end days are nigh upon us. Many unconnected prophesies are pointing to something happening in September 2017. It is not yet apparent what will happen, for that remains to be seen.
This link shows some of the events pointing to signs of the times.

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=111929#11

-
I do not follow the paganistic teachings of the Pestertarian, but know many people their. I do not know if I will be around their much longer.

[docscience]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

To Basilissa --- Thankyou for the links. I have examined them.
They mostly do not conflict with what I have written. Further, in the important areas, they completely avoid and evade important points of scripture, and do not mention what they are afraid to talk about.
That is good, because they are not misleading anyone, and they making a good representation of scripture.
I must commend them for that.
Thankyou for your efforts.
Sincerely,
Gilbert.

[Didymus Much]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

...Further, in the important areas, they completely avoid and evade important points of scripture, and do not mention what they are afraid to talk about...

Now here's your chance to surprise the Hell out of me:

Unlike every other poster who has ever come here and claimed that Landover is avoiding or ignoring ANYTHING in the King James Bible, how about, instead of just a blanket accusation lacking any specifics at all (you've covered that already), actually bringing up the Scripture you feel has been overlooked, and tell us what the True Christians™ should do about it? That'd be great.

Also, bolding is for emphasis. If you're "emphasising" your whole post, it kinda misses the point. So don't do that.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

What you have said disregards Paul's rather unambiguous statement that all things are lawful. It may be lawful to hit yourself on the head with a hammer but that would be unedifying. In any event I do not wish to hammer my head but continued reading your lengthy and unsubstantiated material upon which I shall comment slightly: my points will be within the quote done in a Lapis Lazuli font for contrast.

concerning 1-corinthians 10:23-27

I have read both sides of the argument.



There is no argument



I know both sides of the argument.
Therefore I need to figure out if one is correct, or if both can be correct.

Isaiah 66:15-17 makes it clear that those eating unclean THINGS will become toast, when the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots.

So Is Isaiah correct or is Paul correct ??
We have very good confirmation that Isaiah has not changed and is correct.

2-Peter 3:16--as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things ; in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.



HERE IS THE PASSAGE IN CONTEXT:

II PETER 3 . KJV . look up
15c Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17a Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

We do not wrest with these things or with other Scriptures because we are not unstable and additionally are aware that being led away with this error of the wicked would lead to a fall from our steadfastness. Not only do we have the experiences of Paul and Peter chosen for us by God as a reliable guide through the vicissitudes of life, we have Jesus too. Here you have it straight from the Lawmaker Himself:

MARK 7 . KJV . look up
14 When he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Jesus knows the Old Testament very well, and I do need to point out that's the only Testament there was when Jesus was speaking and He had not been nailed to the Cross either; Jesus would have known about Isaiah 66.



We do know that peter says that Paul's writings are sometimes hard to understand.
There are a couple reasons for this.
One reason is that sometimes Paul is writing in response to questions, and so we get a one sided conversation.
Another is that Paul is addressing a specific issue, and items that are not specifically related to that issue, are not included.
Paul knows the OT very well and would have known about Isaiah 66.

In this case, 1-corinthians 10:23-27 are referenced.

-corinthians 10:28 --But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols,
Verse 28 makes it clear that the issue in the previous verses is about meat offered to idols.

-corinthians 10:25 -Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience’ sake :
Verse 25 --The explanation that I have heard



The very definition of hearsay! God is clear that His Word does not require interpretation.


is that when you buy meat, where ever, it is always, in normal circumstance, labeled as to the type of meat.
There is no need to ask what it is, because that would be labeled... So they would just NOT buy those unclean things.
But steaks, for example, a clean food, would not be labeled weather it was sacrificed to idols, therefore Paul means -do not ask if it is sacrificed to idols,
because the idols that they are sacrificed to, are not living things but just stone objects, and therefore meaningless, and does not effect the meat.

The verses before vrs 23 again talk about food sacrifices and idols.
The whole passage topic is concerning and references food and idols.

Paul would be well aware that swine is not food, and that this would be well known, because anyone going to a synagogue anywhere, would learn this message.
There would be no need for Paul to mention that unclean things are not food.
This same theme is related to all other Bible passages where Paul talks about eating.

Paul says this in Acts 24:14 - so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets : .
This means that Paul would never contradict a prophecy, nor eat unclean animals, and never teach to eat unclean animals.

Your choices are that you either accept that this is correct, OR
the alternative is that either Paul is wrong, or Isaiah is wrong.

IT IS YOUR CHOICE, IF YOU WANT TO CALL ISAIAH A FALSE PROPHET, BECAUSE JESUS DID NOT SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISAIAH.




I suggest you read The Bible before making any more fallacious remarks. The one you've succumbed to in whatever cult you're associating with is the false dichotomy, equivalent to proffering a choice between TARTAN or CHARTREUSE WITH CERISE POLKA DOTS for sky colour. Paul did not say “Buy anything you like to eat subject to food labelling regulations” and you have not included any examples of Roman regulatory law to support your inane proposition. In any event since you seem so taken with Peter it's probably about time for some more Scripture.

ACTS 10 . KJV . whole chapter
9b Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Still preferring the teachings you have received over actual words spoken by Jesus, written by Paul and spoken to Peter? Just in case that happened God makes quite sure we get the point in the next chapter which I'm happy to post for you.

ACTS 11 . KJV . whole chapter
5 [Peter speaking] I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me. 12a And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting.

Assorted “ifs” and “buts” removed for brevity.

Many people fellowshipping here have been delivered from cults such as the Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, New Mathura Vrindabanists, Raëlians and so on although why anyone would believe a French racing car driver who invented a free love creed hallucinating inside a volcano is beyond me you'd think the words "free love," "racing car driver" & "French" would be a dead giveaway not to mention it's just what you'd expect him to do even without the volcano but I digress and in any event it's the same process by which all alternative denominations are produced more or less.

God knew that would happen. I can imagine the sorts of mumblings Raël would insinuate in one's ear if he got close enough but as for the others their mumblings (or shoutings-from-the-rooftop as the case may be) certainly come under the heading PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS concerning which God has said, recorded once again by Peter:

II PETER 1 . KJV . look up
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

If you would like to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour contact the Pastoral team at any time.

[docscience]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

to Alvin Moss ---
I am replying to your note -

----------------------------
Dear docscience, - You have received an infraction at The Landover Baptist Church Forum.
Reason: Twisting Holy Scripture to make it sound internally contradictory
---------------------------

I had requested - If you know of a better explanation, then please write or post a link.
Isaiah's prophecy is very clear - Isaiah 66:27 --Those eating swine’s flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.


These are not my words, this is scripture, these are God's words to you, Alvin Moss - .
-
-
Please tell me precisely how you interpret Isaiah 66:15-17.
Do you believe that Isaiah is telling the truth ?
-
I await your answer.
If you believe in truth, then please give a response.
-
I am waiting for your response.
God is waiting for your response.
-
-
I have written what I feel that God wants me to write.
You can ban me, but you will never forget that God wants your answer.
-
Sincerely ,
Gilbert .

[docscience]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

to MitzaLizalor --

You are saying that Isaiah made a prophecy that will not come true.

You are thinking that those who are eating unclean foods will not be destroyed according to Isaiah 66:17

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

concerning 1-corinthians 10:23-27

1Co:10:21: Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
1Co:10:22: Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
1Co:10:23: All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
1Co:10:24: Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
1Co:10:25: Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1Co:10:26: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
-

I have read both sides of the argument.

Lies!

I know both sides of the argument.

Falseshoods!

Therefore I need to figure out if one is correct, or if both can be correct.

hypocritical abomination – You do not need to do either – your soul is already damned.
-

Isaiah 66:15-17 makes it clear that those eating unclean THINGS will become toast, when the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots.

No He isn't, and no, He won't.

I'm not sure if you know, but Jesus invented the period so that we might know where one idea ended and another began.

Isa:66:15: For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa:66:16: For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. <-Period!
New Subject: -> Isa:66:17: They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. <- this refers to hypocrites, like you.
Isa:66:18: For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
-

So Is Isaiah correct

Isaiah is quoting God – God is always correct

or is Paul correct ??

Paul is quoting Jesus and Jesus is God and is always correct.

2-Peter 3:16--as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things ; in which are some things hard to be understood,

And this is why the Bible is inerrant – Peter knew that there would be people like you who have difficulty farting and chewing gum, let alone knowing the meaning of God’s Pure Words.
-
1Co:10:25: Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1Co:10:26: For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
1Co:10:27: If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
-

Paul would be well aware that swine is not food, and that this would be well known, because anyone going to a synagogue anywhere, would learn this message.
There would be no need for Paul to mention that unclean things are not food.
This same theme is related to all other Bible passages where Paul talks about eating.

Half-assed garbage!

Paul had read Acts: -
Act 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
Act 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

And Paul knows all about Jesus:
M'r:7:1: Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
M'r:7:2: And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.[…]
M'r:7:14: And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
M'r:7:15: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
M'r:7:16: If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

I assume that you have ears - even if you have nothing between them.


God, who is also Jesus, changed the dietary laws – Think of that: not only eternal Life in Heaven but eat what you want. Why are there still Jews and Muslims? I don’t get it.

Sincerely ,
Gilbert Schmidt .
.

Schmidt? Are you Jewish or German – either way your command of English is minimal – Have a look in a dictionary for the meaning of “sincerely.”

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

to MitzaLizalor --

You are saying that Isaiah made a prophecy that will not come true.

You are thinking that those who are eating unclean foods will not be destroyed according to Isaiah 66:17

If you can point out where I've claimed that that would be great. Thanks.

Another concern is the way you just ignore the words of Jesus. In addition I went out of my way to find evidence for you from Peter. So far we've got JESUS, PAUL, PETER all in agreement but docscience dissenting. This fact does need addressing.

Why do you think it's called the New Testament? Where does the word "testament" come from (hint: it's the same root as for "testify" like when giving evidence or something) and what is the origin of that root? But that's a side issue really. I'm more interested in why you think Jesus got it wrong. Remember that He is Himself a fulfilment of prophecy in Isaiah. Or are you one of those who claim that the following prophecy:

ISAIAH 7 look up
(1) In the days of Ahaz…king of Judah,…the king of Syria and…the king of Israel went up toward Jerusalem to war against it.
(3,4) Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz…and say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not.

God explains what will happen to this plan of Rezin and Pekah, the plan to destroy Judah

(7) Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.
(10,11,12) The LORD spake again unto Ahaz saying, Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God…but Ahaz said, I will not ask.

Ahaz was happy to take God at His word without subjecting it to some sort of test. God likes that; this is what happened next:

(14,15,16)Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son…butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

People placing this interpretation on God's historical record then ask us to turn over to the next page. There are two reasons for this, they say. Firstly, because the prophecy had an associated time frame of 65 years something more immediate was called for and secondly, because the prophecy needed to be fulfilled within living memory for the test of a true prophet to stand. If you have a prophet whose prophecies only come true thousands of years later the test cannot be applied during his lifetime and so he would fail the test and his prophecies would not be recorded, they claim.

ISAIAH 8 look up
(3,4) And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son…[God speaking] Before the child shall have knowledge to cry, My father, and my mother, the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria shall be taken away before the king of Assyria.

This fulfils the short term prophecy about a child to be born as confirmation that Isaiah was correctly informing Ahaz about the pending invasion, namely that both nations would be kaput within 65 years.

(18) [Isaiah speaking] Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. KJV

is internally fulfilled?

The Pastors make sure that we do know what sorts of alternative "explanations" are applied to Isaiah. Are you one of those people who say the prophecy in chapter 7 was fulfilled in chapter 8 and is that therefore why you're ignoring what Jesus said? As well as what Peter said. And what Paul said. But I won't include Paul because you think he writes in code or something. So far I'd say you're not doing too well with Isaiah and Peter. Perhaps you'd like to try Jonah and John instead?

[Brother Gonzalez]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

to MitzaLizalor --

You are saying that Isaiah made a prophecy that will not come true.

You are thinking that those who are eating unclean foods will not be destroyed according to Isaiah 66:17

No, Mr Doc. You are twisting scripture, as Brother Alvin told you.


The whole Isaiah prophecy was based on the fact that the nation of Israel was disobeying God. The laws of God were applied only to the nation of Israel; the "Gentiles" were not saved (and not to be saved, let me add) and so not under the obligation to follow the Laws of the Tabernacle, the Covenant with God.


When the Isralites turned their backs to God (and they did it many, many times) God decided that instead of separating the Israelites from the Gentiles, He will be saving the Gentiles. And the Gentiles are NOT and NEVER WERE forced to follow the Covenant.


In Isaiah 65:4 God is talking to the Israelites. And ONLY to the Israelites.


Of course, you want proof of this. Read the whole Isaiah book. And then, go to Romans:


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.



Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.



And of course, the famous Colossians passage:


Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:



Please be aware that this words in no way mean that we don't have to follow the OT; instead of that, it ONLY means that we are not to follow the laws of the Tabernacle. We are released from that, and ONLY from that.


So was God lying in the book of Isaiah? No, look at what happened with Jews during history, they were punished for disobeying the Laws of the Tabernacle. But not us, Mr Doc. Not us. We did not have an Inquisition, nor an Auschwitz, have you ever wondered why?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

So from your 2nd paragraph, is that why gentiles needed to convert to find redemption? (I mean convert from paganism to Judaism as it was)

No, Mr Doc. You are twisting scripture, as Brother Alvin told you.


The whole Isaiah prophecy was based on the fact that the nation of Israel was disobeying God. The laws of God were applied only to the nation of Israel; the "Gentiles" were not saved (and not to be saved, let me add) ... When the Isralites turned their backs to God (and they did it many, many times) God decided that instead of separating the Israelites from the Gentiles, He will be saving the Gentiles.

[Brother Gonzalez]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

So from your 2nd paragraph, is that why gentiles needed to convert to find redemption? (I mean convert from paganism to Judaism as it was)

It hasn't changed; you still have to convert (to Christianity, nowadays) in order to find salvation.


Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.



What has changed is the mechanism. Let's say in layman terms that the Bible 2.0 makes it easier for the non-Christians to become Abraham's seed:


Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



It is VERY easy to become a True Christian (the mechanism, at least), while still remains very difficult to become a True Jew.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

I think I understand. One specific seed, Jesus. So to benefit we would have to become part of, rather than just think about, Him. That will be why Jesus is returning as our bridegroom. By marrying Him we do become part of Him.

[docscience]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

-
This topic is ONLY concerning the Levitical FOOD laws of Leviticus 11.
All of your responces in the past, have helped me figure out, how this message should be worded...Thankyou for your help.
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I begin by pointing out that "Pim Pendergast" has written an excellent article, which is posted on this forum, at this link here.
landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=88638
landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?p=989228
When you look at the list of all the laws in the OT, many are repeated in the NT and are still in effect.
There are 4 options... Some laws are done away, some remain unchanged , some enhanced, and some added.
Another exceptional article, posted right here on this forum site, by "Pastor William Nathaniel Sampson" is titled a short list of 67 laws in the NT.
Most of the laws were from the OT Torah, and it is right on this forum site.
landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=65069
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There are 2 entirely differing and opposing explanations of Paul's writings concerning the Levitical food laws.
One explanation says that the food laws were done away and nailed to the cross, and the other says that the Leviticus ch.11 food laws are still fully in effect, and are NOT done away.
Both have very persuasive supporting arguments.
IN BOTH interpretations, all verses concerning food, in the NT, are interpreted and understood, to agree with their particular position.
Most Christians are ONLY taught the one explanation, that says that the food laws are done away.
Many of those, are also taught that it is bondage to obey the Levitical food laws.
The other opposing explanation has been explained by several different groups, and posted in youtube videos.
Unless you study both views, you will not be able to know if, or which view, is the correct one.
I am going to give you my conclusions as brief as I can, but you should research it yourself, to see which you agree with.
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It is important for you to remember that every passage in the NT concerning food, has the 2 opposing interpretations, in which one interpretation agrees with the position that they are supporting.
IT is important that you know that both positions are completely in opposition to each other, and only 1 can be correct, NOT both.
Either the FOOD laws are done away OR they are still fully in effect.
I found this to be one of the better supporting videos ( v=PgyhEEQz0PY ).
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The OT supports the Food laws as being fully in effect.
Throughout the OT, the food laws are mentioned many times.
If we say that the Food laws list in Leviticus is done away, we are not able to use that, as supporting evidence.
Most references in the OT can NOT be used as supporting evidence of the food laws.
I have been able to find only 1 other piece of evidence which will support one of the positions.
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KJV Isaiah 66:17 says that people eating pigs and swine are going to be consumed, (turned into toast) at that future event.
Isaiah is writing about a future prophecy, which is to happen at some point, which is still in the future to us.
Isaiah's prophecy can NOT be done away, or cancelled, because that would make Isaiah a false prophet.
Jesus never mentioned that there was any problems with Isaiah's prophecies.
We do not know when this future event will happen, therefore, for our safety, we should always follow the Levitical food laws.
IF this is true, as described, the food laws, are a few of the laws, that are still in effect.
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I am writing this, because, if this is true, I do not want to see any of you people, turned into toast.
You will not be able to say that you were not warned.
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sincerely ,
Gilbert.
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__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________________

[Brother Gonzalez]

Re: My brief introductory comments as requested to do so.

-

KJV Isaiah 66:17 says that people eating pigs and swine are going to be consumed, (turned into toast) at that future event.
Isaiah is writing about a future prophecy, which is to happen at some point, which is still in the future to us.
Isaiah's prophecy can NOT be done away, or cancelled, because that would make Isaiah a false prophet.
Jesus never mentioned that there was any problems with Isaiah's prophecies.
We do not know when this future event will happen, therefore, for our safety, we should always follow the Levitical food laws.
IF this is true, as described, the food laws, are a few of the laws, that are still in effect.

Hi Mr Doc


You are sitting on the edge that separates a True Christian from the other Christians out there.


A True Christian KNOWS which laws are still bonding and which laws are to be put aside.


First of all, we MUST FOLLOW ALL THE BIBLE:


Joshua 1:8 - This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.





BUT, some laws are old:


Romans 1:6
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.


4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.





So we must follow the Law, but we are delivered from the Law...


What did Jesus say?


Matthew 5:17-20 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


So Jesus came to fulfil, and not destroy. But the Law had not acomplished its mission. The Law did not make us righteous, but sinful, we (the human beings) were sinning and disobeyng the law. So repentance from the sin was the new method introduced by God. Me must follow the Law, but that is not possible to do unless we REPENT. We must REPENT, and then follow the Law.


Which law then?


Well, the Old Testament describes many laws in Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. Most of the Laws are not set in a timeframe. In fact, the only laws set in a timeframe are the laws of the Tabernable, which describe the statutes and rules for priesthood and sacrifices.


See how the Bible was written:


Deuteronomy 4:36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.



So this is the voice of God himself.


Deuteronomy 5:22 These words the Lord spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.



He gave Moses the two tablets commandments and added NO MORE. Of course He made Moses write all the rules and regulations that followed:


Deuteronomy 4:13-14,


13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it."



God wrote ten commandments and then told Moses: "I don't want to write all the rest, because I am God Thy Lord, so you go and write the rest of the laws in Deuteronomy"


What was happening there? Well, of course, those laws where to be applied ONLY on the tabernacle. God did not bother to write them Himself. Those are laws that were time framed and expired. Jesus himself told us that in the New Covenant, as explained before.


We are only to be bound to the Laws of the Leviticus, Numbers and those parts of Deuteronomy that were not only applied to the Tabernacle (i.e. the Ten Commandments).


What about the food laws of the Leviticus, then?


Well, my friend, Jesus himself has relieved us from ALL the laws concerning foods:


Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

So nothing we eat can defile us. This is a BIG difference with other Leviticus laws. Here Jesus himself says to us. "Relax, chill, calm down. Eat what you want, nothing will happen" (a short diggression: take this, you "doctors" and "ecologists" saying that eating this will make your heart explode, or that contains GMO's or whatever)


If you want more, here you have:


1 Corinthians 10:25-27


25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:


26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.


27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.



I hope you find this satisfactory.


Regarding the issue with Isaiah. He is talking about the israelites. And only about them. Next time you see a Jew eating bacon, please warn Him. We are not bount with that law, thanks Jesus for that.


But the Jews have burnt (think Auschwitz: God works in mysterious ways!) And they will burn again if they defy Isaiah!


No contradictions! Praise the Lord!