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  • Father Thomas Martin
    Pedantic Pubescent Pedophile Papist Proselytizer
    • Jul 2007
    • 1015

    #1

    King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

    You say the KJV is the only true version of God's Word.

    Well then how do you explain:

    Jesus and his Disciples would have likely spoken Aramaic. The early Christians and New Testament writers used Greek. The Torah that Jesus held sacred was written in Hebrew.
    Since the original publication of the KJV, many new source documents, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, have been discovered, and other archaeological research has been done in the last 400 years.
    The Greek text on which the King James Version is based is the Greek New Testament published by Robert Estienne (or 'Stephanus') in 1550. Stephanus's New Testament was based on a small collection of Byzantine manuscripts, none predating the year A.D. 1200. Some scholars argue that the older a manuscript is the more reliable it is, but this is debated.
    According to the translation theory of Eugene Nida, literal translations (like the KJV) in effect are more inaccurate with respect to the meaning of the original text than those translations which sacrifice formal features of the source text to achieve greater accuracy in meaning (see Dynamic and formal equivalence). Additionally, it could be argued that the language of the 1611 edition was already becoming outdated even at the time it was printed. Changes in language and usage leading to obscured meaning is a continuous problem, creating a strong argument against one fixed translation for all time for the "common people" to read.
    With respect to theological bias, supporters of modern versions point to the fact that these translations are often done by committees of Christians from various denominations, while the KJV translation committee was strictly Anglican.
    The KJV is said to be a theologically sound translation which maintains pure doctrine, where modern translations are corrupt in this respect. The KJV Only advocates are split between Independent Baptists and Reformed Protestants (Calvinists) who do not agree between themselves on their theological positions.
    The "KJV Only" position assumes that there is one definitive KJV, when in fact there were many editions and revisions. What most Christians call the "KJV" today is not the KJV of 1611. The "KJV" today is from the 1769 version, the last year it was revised. The removal of the Apocrypha, which was in earlier editions, is just one of many changes that have occurred over the years.
    The suggestion that modern translators are somehow adding to scripture or changing scripture as the Bible expressly forbids is not necessarily true. A modern translator ideally believes whole-heartedly that the original scriptures (the source documents) must not be added to or changed, but that the translator has a duty to try and translate those documents in the best way possible. The modern-day translator is seeking to bring the Bible message to people "in words they can understand." Also, they point out several passages (John 1.18, Romans 9.5, Titus 2.13, II Peter 1.1) where the divinity of Jesus in modern translations is more explicit than in the KJV.
    The pleasantness of the KJV is a matter of opinion, and not a fact.
    It has been asserted by some modern groups that since the KJV translators worked on behest of King James of England and Scotland, they did not edit it for everyone's benefit, as much as for his benefit, thus producing a biased wording.
    The KJV refer to the Holy Spirit as "it" and not "He" in several passages. Almost all Protestant denominations hold that the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost is a person and not a thing or energy. These passages are: John 1:32, Romans 8:16,26, and 1 Peter 1:11.


    You say you are true Christians-you are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor. Take them away!
    ACTS 5:29

    But Peter and the apostles said in reply, "We must obey God rather than men."
    There you have it-so WHAT'S STOPPING YOU COWARDS?
  • Pastor Ezekiel
    Putting the "stud" back in Bible Study
     
    • Sep 2006
    • 78552

    #2
    Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

    Originally posted by Father Thomas Martin View Post
    You say the KJV is the only true version of God's Word.

    Well then how do you explain:

    papist lies deleted

    You say you are true Christians-you are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor. Take them away!
    First, you plagiarize a pile of claptrap from some papist website, then you suddenly become "Darth Vader" and order us imprisoned? I suppose you imagine this to be devastatingly impressive....

    At least you have us on the correct sides in your ridiculous little fantasy, "father darth".
    Who Will Jesus Damn?

    Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

    Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

    Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!

    Comment

    • Father Thomas Martin
      Pedantic Pubescent Pedophile Papist Proselytizer
      • Jul 2007
      • 1015

      #3
      Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

      Originally posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
      First, you plagiarize a pile of claptrap from some papist website, then you suddenly become "Darth Vader" and order us imprisoned? I suppose you imagine this to be devastatingly impressive....

      At least you have us on the correct sides in your ridiculous little fantasy, "father darth".
      What can I say? The Force of God is with me...
      ACTS 5:29

      But Peter and the apostles said in reply, "We must obey God rather than men."
      There you have it-so WHAT'S STOPPING YOU COWARDS?

      Comment

      • Pastor Ezekiel
        Putting the "stud" back in Bible Study
         
        • Sep 2006
        • 78552

        #4
        Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

        Originally posted by Father Thomas Martin View Post
        What can I say? The Force of God is with me...
        Uh, you haven't ever watched these moies, have you.

        Your buddy Darth was a tool of satan. Like you, bead counter.
        Who Will Jesus Damn?

        Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

        Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

        Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!

        Comment

        • Rev. Dr. Davidson
          Forum Member
          Forum Member
          • Jan 2007
          • 1439

          #5
          Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

          So you're saying that the papist interpretation of "Thou shalt not murder" into thou shalt not kill is correct?

          This seems to be a case of the pot calling the kettle Christian.

          Is Hitlery Cliton your mentor by chance?
          "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservant's do."
          (Leviticus 21:6-7)

          Comment

          • Pastor Ezekiel
            Putting the "stud" back in Bible Study
             
            • Sep 2006
            • 78552

            #6
            Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

            "Father" Martian seems to have conveniently overlooked THIS recent sermon of mine. I think I summed it up nicely.
            Who Will Jesus Damn?

            Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

            Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

            Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!

            Comment

            • Father Thomas Martin
              Pedantic Pubescent Pedophile Papist Proselytizer
              • Jul 2007
              • 1015

              #7
              Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

              Originally posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
              Uh, you haven't ever watched these moies, have you.

              Your buddy Darth was a tool of satan. Like you, bead counter.
              I hope you cen team up with me in outsting Emperor Pastor-Deacon Fred. Then together we can rule the city of Freehold as Father and Separated Brother!
              ACTS 5:29

              But Peter and the apostles said in reply, "We must obey God rather than men."
              There you have it-so WHAT'S STOPPING YOU COWARDS?

              Comment

              • Joe the Atheist
                Hellbound atheist - avoid contact
                Forum Member
                • Aug 2007
                • 53

                #8
                Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

                Originally posted by Father Thomas Martin View Post
                You say you are true Christians-you are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor. Take them away!
                Hey Father Martin. Can I take your statements as a confirmation of this story?

                The new Pope Benedict XVI seems to bear more than a passing resemblance to Emperor Palpatine from the Star Wars movies, in fact some suggest he might even be Emperor Palpatine, and this is just his latest scheme for galactic domination.


                I'm just kidding around. Getting back on topic, this page lists various revisions of the KJV.

                My favorite one is the 1763 KJV, where Psalm 14:1 says "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God."

                --Joe
                Have you heard the Good News? There are no gods, there is no hell, and the only sin is being mean to other people.

                There are no ghosts, pixies, hobgoblins, angels, leprechauns, gods, goddesses, demons, minotaurs, devils, witches, warlocks, dragons, or spirits.

                Prayer, magic spells, and doing nothing accomplish exactly the same thing.

                Comment

                • Ezekiel Bathfire
                  Pastor for Diversity and Tolerance
                  Christ's Rottweiler
                   
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 22839

                  #9
                  Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

                  Father Martin,

                  There’s a True Christian™ inside you trying to get out. But your wages and house depend on towing the party line.

                  The learned way you lay those nice words out on the page tends to make me think there’s more than a bit of Jesuit* in you.

                  The point of the KJV is that it nearer the source than any other English text. It reflects, in all its glory the society and morality of the time and does not bow down to dumbing down and tree-hugging friends of the Whale to make it more “acceptable.” Nor does it lessen the mighty impact of the True Word™ of The Lord.

                  I suggest a reading of the preface of the KJV – a more honourable set of scholars have never been brought together before or since.

                  All these, soft translations that followed to please man’s idea of how God should be are rubbish. Why, I read recently that some translator translated the original word “virgin” in respect of Mary as “maiden” in the sense of “young girl” – no virgin birth for you then and no point in all those idols.

                  Now I’m sure that the vicar of Rome would not approve that. So, we see that what appears in each and every subsequent translation of the Bible changes to fit the times and politics of those in power.

                  Strangely God does not change; only once in the Bible does He regret His actions 1Sa:15:35 but He changes nothing.

                  Which texts from which the Bible was composed are of the greatest value? Why the early ones, and the earlier the better.

                  So, when we want authority of God’s word, the KJV Bible lets us have the earliest written in God’s English.

                  * What is similar about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?
                  Well, they were both founded by Spaniards, St. Dominic for the Dominicans, and St. Ignatius of Loyola for the Jesuits.
                  They were also both founded to combat heresy: the Dominicans to fight the Albigensians, and the Jesuits to fight the Protestants.
                  What is different about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?
                  Well, have you met any Albigensians lately?


                  Amen


                  Bathfire E
                  sigpic


                  “We must reassert that the essence of Christianity is the love of obedience to God’s Laws and that how that complete obedience is used or implemented does not concern us.”

                  Author of such illuminating essays as,
                  Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.

                  Comment

                  • Kerby316
                    Unsaved trash
                     
                    • Jan 2008
                    • 48

                    #10
                    Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

                    Originally posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
                    First, you plagiarize a pile of claptrap from some papist website, then you suddenly become "Darth Vader" and order us imprisoned? I suppose you imagine this to be devastatingly impressive....

                    At least you have us on the correct sides in your ridiculous little fantasy, "father darth".
                    You do realize that Star-Wars is a fictional movie right? A crappy fictional movie at that. I'm not doubting your agruement, mind you. In fact I agree there is only one Bible. But did you have to put star wars into this? :| Compare it to something else. Once again I agree, but the verbal weapon choice was....bleh.

                    Comment

                    • Bobby-Joe
                      Landover Security Superviser
                      Asset Loss Prevention and Personal Security Expert
                      NOT angry and positively NOT Gay
                      True Christian™
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 18405

                      #11
                      Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

                      Originally posted by Kerby316 View Post
                      You do realize that Star-Wars is a fictional movie right? A crappy fictional movie at that. I'm not doubting your agruement, mind you. In fact I agree there is only one Bible. But did you have to put star wars into this? :| Compare it to something else. Once again I agree, but the verbal weapon choice was....bleh.
                      You are aware of the resemblance of Pope Benedict to Emperor Palatine in Star Wars?

                      Time to reclaim our FREEDOM from the “Mullah in Chief” and his growing activist voter hoards of socialists, communists, anti-Semites, anti-Christians, atheists, radical gays and lesbians, feminists, illegal immigrants, Muslims, anti-Anglo whites and others.

                      Hot Must ReadThreads!


                      Time to come clean on Benghazi Mr Obama!

                      Comment

                      • JennyD
                        Honorary True Christian™
                        Sweet Placid Sister
                        Forum Member
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 9567

                        #12
                        Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

                        Originally posted by Kirby316 View Post
                        You do realize that Star-Wars is a fictional movie right? A crappy fictional movie at that. I'm not doubting your agruement, mind you. In fact I agree there is only one Bible. But did you have to put star wars into this? :| Compare it to something else. Once again I agree, but the verbal weapon choice was....bleh.
                        Excuse me, Kirby Vacuum Cleaner, but Mother Thomas Martin is the one who brought Star Wars into the discussion. Kindly re-read the final sentences of the original post.
                        www.palibandaily.com - Your Christian News Source
                        Huckabee/Palin Gingrich 2012 will reclaim America for Christ! PRAISE!

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                        Savor your separation in style at the Monthly Visitor!

                        Comment

                        • Father Thomas Martin
                          Pedantic Pubescent Pedophile Papist Proselytizer
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 1015

                          #13
                          Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

                          Originally posted by Eziekiel Bathfire View Post
                          Father Martin,

                          There’s a True Christian™ inside you trying to get out. But your wages and house depend on towing the party line.

                          The learned way you lay those nice words out on the page tends to make me think there’s more than a bit of Jesuit* in you.

                          The point of the KJV is that it nearer the source than any other English text. It reflects, in all its glory the society and morality of the time and does not bow down to dumbing down and tree-hugging friends of the Whale to make it more “acceptable.” Nor does it lessen the mighty impact of the True Word™ of The Lord.

                          I suggest a reading of the preface of the KJV – a more honourable set of scholars have never been brought together before or since.

                          All these, soft translations that followed to please man’s idea of how God should be are rubbish. Why, I read recently that some translator translated the original word “virgin” in respect of Mary as “maiden” in the sense of “young girl” – no virgin birth for you then and no point in all those idols.

                          Now I’m sure that the vicar of Rome would not approve that. So, we see that what appears in each and every subsequent translation of the Bible changes to fit the times and politics of those in power.

                          Strangely God does not change; only once in the Bible does He regret His actions 1Sa:15:35 but He changes nothing.

                          Which texts from which the Bible was composed are of the greatest value? Why the early ones, and the earlier the better.

                          So, when we want authority of God’s word, the KJV Bible lets us have the earliest written in God’s English.

                          * What is similar about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?
                          Well, they were both founded by Spaniards, St. Dominic for the Dominicans, and St. Ignatius of Loyola for the Jesuits.
                          They were also both founded to combat heresy: the Dominicans to fight the Albigensians, and the Jesuits to fight the Protestants.
                          What is different about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?
                          Well, have you met any Albigensians lately?


                          Amen


                          Bathfire E
                          Ya know, the KJV1611 has all the Deuterocanonical books...It's the modern KJV that took them out!
                          ACTS 5:29

                          But Peter and the apostles said in reply, "We must obey God rather than men."
                          There you have it-so WHAT'S STOPPING YOU COWARDS?

                          Comment

                          • Brother Temperance
                            Senior Usher
                            True Christian™ missionary to the Unsaved Kingdom
                            A very nice young man
                            True Christian™
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 15621

                            #14
                            Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

                            Originally posted by Father Thomas Martin View Post
                            Ya know, the KJV1611 has all the Deuterocanonical books...It's the modern KJV that took them out!
                            Show me one KJV 1611 that has the Deuterocanonical books in. I'm waiting.
                            O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.



                            God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.

                            Comment

                            • sweeper
                              Unsaved trash, Godmocking false Christian
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 14

                              #15
                              Re: King-James-Only? WRONG!!!!

                              I support Farther Thomas Martin as far as his opening thread starter goes. He nailed it with comprehensive dynamic truthful fluency, and facts, and i second his opening thread not knowing anything about the man, this being my first post in these forums.
                              I have spent the last five years of my life translating the ultimate bible to put an end to all the wrangling over which is best, and thus share father martins sentiments and opinions, which is exactly why i have done my version, among other reasons.
                              The king James version is merely a revision of other earlier versions which is why it is 80% identical to the earlier Geneva and William tyndale versions. It rides on the back of work achieved by earlier scholars like those who did the Bishops bible, the Coverdale bible, and others.
                              I can state unequivocally that the king james bible has errors and questionable translation in many verses and also is now long outdated in it's use of 4 hundred year old English language, and my version revises it and fixes the problem beautifully. I better say my earlier statement again-five years now i've been doing it! You can bet your life on it that someone has finally nailed it.
                              Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
                              13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

                              Comment

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