[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Creationism

and do you know that church of Rome(Catholic)
chose 4 gospels that went in Bible on first Council of Nicaea
the same church that you don't recognize as Christian

I knew it. She's a papist whore.

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Creationism

Thank you for confirming my suspicions.

Nothing taking place at any Council of Nicaea is of the slightest significance where Baptist beliefs are concerned. Our faith predates Romish mumbo jumbo by over 3 centuries. It has not changed in that time. Vatican criminals just make up lies as they go along, thus producing changes which require periodic "workshopping" to "get the story straight" in exactly the way prevented by police officers' keeping crooks apart prior to Court appearances. Vatican conspiracies do not concern us in any way.

God's word concerning His creation is quite clear. When we look at the firmament and everything wonderful in it, such as the stars, it is equally obvious. At night I don't go outside and think "where is everything I can't see" — I think "Whango, look at all the stars there's so many of them and they're so bright and the moon!" In the daytime events are even more spectacular. The sun rises daubing its radiant palette, the trees sway and you can't really miss what follows (compared to the total darkness you'd have if nothing were there). If you told me the Chinese word for all this was different from the French word, Sure, it probably is but they all describe the same thing.



Whether you accept God's evidence about Creation or not, in the example you posted His word is quoted. Here is the source:

GENESIS 1
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
5c And the evening and the morning were the first day.
KJV

I suppose you are insinuating that Adam was a caveman; if he hadn't built a house he might have slept in a cave sometimes. Or up a tree. There wouldn't have been any predators to fear because death had not yet entered into the world. Adam did not wear clothes. However notice in particular verse 5c in which God explains that the creation of light came into effect well before there were any cavemen. According to the secular scientist upon whose bizarre theories your trite conundrum stands or falls, the earliest epoch of transparency [of the interstellar medium to light] occurred some 16 or 17 billion years before the supposed evolution of hominids. Light, in this fantastic model, already existed well before any cavemen.

Back to God:

GENESIS 1
26a And God said, Let us make man in our image
27a So God created man in his own image
31c And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
KJV

I know that some Godmockers announce a "day" in Genesis to mean so-many-billions-of-years just to fit The Bible into their theories. What a joke.
Day one would need to be a completely different length from day two.
Day two would be not even slightly similar to days three, four and five (varying by millions &/or billions of years).
And day six, as referred to in the graphic you posted, would only be a few millennia!

You no doubt imagine Adam to have had a mother. Women did not exist at that time making the image of a cavewoman doubly ridiculous but whether you accept the satanic science of cosmology or The Inerrant Word Of God what you're asking is equally meaningless and what saddens me above all is that the artist should depict a Jewess squatting in so unseemly a fashion. Whatever our theological differences and however much despised by God they at least understand basic hygeine.

DEUTERONOMY 23
12 Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:
13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:
14 For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.
KJV . look up

The Bible is clear as to why God did turn away from the Israelites. I've appended the relevant passage from Matthew in the look up. Although it involved entrapment Scripture records no little piles of excrement shamelessly displayed. Unlike your posts.

And so your conundrum falls.

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Creationism

I knew it. She's a papist whore.

Aw man, this is so disappointing. At least with your garden variety Wiccan, there's some hope that you might be able to work with them.

But a Wiccan Catholic, i.e., a voodoo practitioner? No way can you do anything for 'em.

Guess what Anna, I'm puttin' you on the altar. You're God's problem now, 'cause I'm through with you.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Creationism

If somebody doesn't what Gnostic Gospels are
These are gospels that were banned by the church of Rome, because they didn't suit the agenda of the ruling elite

do you know that church of Rome(Catholic)
chose 4 gospels that went in Bible on first Council of Nicaea

There is no way you could possibly know the motives of the ruling elite and council delegates who lived 1700 years ago. How would the gnostic gospels diminish the power of the ruling elite? How would Matthew, Mark, Luke and John increase their power? The First Council of Nicaea made no ruling on the canon of the New Testament.

A number of erroneous views have been stated regarding the council's role in establishing the biblical canon. In fact, there is no record of any discussion of the biblical canon at the council at all.[59][60] The development of the biblical canon took centuries, and was nearly complete (with exceptions known as the Antilegomena, written texts whose authenticity or value is disputed) by the time the Muratorian fragment was written.[61]

The Muratorian fragment is a 7th century copy of a 2nd century text that describes the canon of the New Testament as we know it today minus seven books which some false Christians at the time disputed such as 2 and 3 John and Jude. It seems to me you are just parroting arguments you found on that wicca website you keep posting links to. Sounds like a reliable source, huh? You need to get your facts straight. (Of course, we know True Christians(tm) have always accepted all 27 books of the NT from the moment they were written.)

do you know that Gnostic Gospels are
older then orthodox gospels(the Matthew,Mark, and Luke)

Wrong again. Some believe the so-called gospel of Thomas may be older than some of the true Gospel accounts. Secular scholars believe most of the gnostics were written around the same time as the real Gospels and some of them centuries later.

I believe that everyone Has Their Own Way To God

The God we worship is not one who lets everyone find their own way to Him.

Ex 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

So when you say "everyone," you mean everyone except Christians, because we are on our way to a different God from the one you are describing, the one in your imagination. Come to think of it, you mean everyone except Christians and muslims, because their moon god allah doesn't let everyone find their own willy-nilly way either. Different religions have different gods, different practices and different teachings. Most claim to be the only true religion. They can't all be right. Either one is right or all are wrong.

[{Anna}]

Re: Creationism

Thank you for confirming my suspicions.

Nothing taking place at any Council of Nicaea is of the slightest significance where Baptist beliefs are concerned. Our faith predates Romish mumbo jumbo by over 3 centuries. It has not changed in that time. Vatican criminals just make up lies as they go along, thus producing changes which require periodic "workshopping" to "get the story straight" in exactly the way prevented by police officers' keeping crooks apart prior to Court appearances. Vatican conspiracies do not concern us in any way.

So why do you use Bible like it was created on Council of Nicaea

God's word concerning His creation is quite clear. When we look at the firmament and everything wonderful in it, such as the stars, it is equally obvious. At night I don't go outside and think "where is everything I can't see" — I think "Whango, look at all the stars there's so many of them and they're so bright and the moon!" In the daytime events are even more spectacular. The sun rises daubing its radiant palette, the trees sway and you can't really miss what follows (compared to the total darkness you'd have if nothing were there). If you told me the Chinese word for all this was different from the French word, Sure, it probably is but they all describe the same thing.



Whether you accept God's evidence about Creation or not, in the example you posted His word is quoted. Here is the source:

GENESIS 1
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
5c And the evening and the morning were the first day.
KJV

I suppose you are insinuating that Adam was a caveman; if he hadn't built a house he might have slept in a cave sometimes. Or up a tree. There wouldn't have been any predators to fear because death had not yet entered into the world. Adam did not wear clothes. However notice in particular verse 5c in which God explains that the creation of light came into effect well before there were any cavemen. According to the secular scientist upon whose bizarre theories your trite conundrum stands or falls, the earliest epoch of transparency [of the interstellar medium to light] occurred some 16 or 17 billion years before the supposed evolution of hominids. Light, in this fantastic model, already existed well before any cavemen.

Back to God:

GENESIS 1
26a And God said, Let us make man in our image
27a So God created man in his own image
31c And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
KJV

I know that some Godmockers announce a "day" in Genesis to mean so-many-billions-of-years just to fit The Bible into their theories. What a joke.
Day one would need to be a completely different length from day two.
Day two would be not even slightly similar to days three, four and five (varying by millions &/or billions of years).
And day six, as referred to in the graphic you posted, would only be a few millennia!

You no doubt imagine Adam to have had a mother. Women did not exist at that time making the image of a cavewoman doubly ridiculous but whether you accept the satanic science of cosmology or The Inerrant Word Of God what you're asking is equally meaningless and what saddens me above all is that the artist should depict a Jewess squatting in so unseemly a fashion. Whatever our theological differences and however much despised by God they at least understand basic hygeine.

DEUTERONOMY 23
12 Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:
13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:
14 For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.
KJV . look up

The Bible is clear as to why God did turn away from the Israelites. I've appended the relevant passage from Matthew in the look up. Although it involved entrapment Scripture records no little piles of excrement shamelessly displayed. Unlike your posts.

And so your conundrum falls.

Bible is written word
scientists have material evidance

Aw man, this is so disappointing. At least with your garden variety Wiccan, there's some hope that you might be able to work with them.

But a Wiccan Catholic, i.e., a voodoo practitioner? No way can you do anything for 'em.

Guess what Anna, I'm puttin' you on the altar. You're God's problem now, 'cause I'm through with you.

No,not Wiccan Catholic,I am Wiccan

There is no way you could possibly know the motives of the ruling elite and council delegates who lived 1700 years ago. How would the gnostic gospels diminish the power of the ruling elite? How would Matthew, Mark, Luke and John increase their power? The First Council of Nicaea made no ruling on the canon of the New Testament.

I can presume

The Muratorian fragment is a 7th century copy of a 2nd century text that describes the canon of the New Testament as we know it today minus seven books which some false Christians at the time disputed such as 2 and 3 John and Jude. It seems to me you are just parroting arguments you found on that wicca website you keep posting links to. Sounds like a reliable source, huh? You need to get your facts straight. (Of course, we know True Christians™ have always accepted all 27 books of the NT from the moment they were written.)



Wrong again. Some believe the so-called gospel of Thomas may be older than some of the true Gospel accounts. Secular scholars believe most of the gnostics were written around the same time as the real Gospels and some of them centuries later.

And some believe the Gnostic gospels are older

The God we worship is not one who lets everyone find their own way to Him.

Ex 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

So when you say "everyone," you mean everyone except Christians, because we are on our way to a different God from the one you are describing, the one in your imagination. Come to think of it, you mean everyone except Christians and muslims, because their moon god allah doesn't let everyone find their own willy-nilly way either. Different religions have different gods, different practices and different teachings. Most claim to be the only true religion. They can't all be right. Either one is right or all are wrong.

No I mean everyone

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Creationism

I can presume

You can presume, but presumption isn't fact. Although what you think determines reality, doesn't it? I came across this quote in one of the links you provided. It gives advice to those who are looking to leave the church to become wiccan.

You are now forced to look within yourself for what really seems true, and distinguish that from what you've been taught to believe.
And every Witch who has gone through this comes out spiritually stronger, knowing that the only guide to Truth is within their own hearts.
As you become more comfortable following the Voice of the Divine Within, and knowing for yourself what is true, those anxieties fade away.

Is this how you "know" everyone is on their way to God? What if someone else' heart tells them there is only one way to God? How can one's heart be a reliable guide on truth? The heart's guidance is likely to be tainted by wishful thinking. It is limited by one's own experience.

One of my favorite quotes from the link above was:

The propaganda that most religious hierarchies have brainwashed into people is, at best, ignorant superstition... and at worst, malicious power- and money-grubbing.

Sounds like wicca to me.

[{Anna}]

Re: Creationism

You can presume, but presumption isn't fact. Although what you think determines reality, doesn't it? I came across this quote in one of the links you provided. It gives advice to those who are looking to leave the church to become wiccan.

You took that out of context
Here alla of it

The second thing you need to understand is that you're not alone.
I think every single ex-Christian Wiccan (or ex-fundamentalist of any kind) has gone through this. You are taking a big step -- from blind acceptance of what other people tell you, to finding the truth for yourself.
If it's any consolation, that's exactly what Jesus himself advocated!



Jesus said, "The Pharisees [priests] and the scribes have taken the keys of Knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves." (Thomas, 39)

You are now forced to look within yourself for what really seems true, and distinguish that from what you've been taught to believe.And every Witch who has gone through this comes out spiritually stronger, knowing that the only guide to Truth is within their own hearts. (As Jesus insisted.)
You will come through this too, and be stronger for having taken this journey.

Is this how you "know" everyone is on their way to God? What if someone else' heart tells them there is only one way to God? How can one's heart be a reliable guide on truth? The heart's guidance is likely to be tainted by wishful thinking. It is limited by one's own experience.

One of my favorite quotes from the link above was:



Sounds like wicca to me.

You took that out of context

It's not only when going from Christian to Wicca...
When a person leaves one religion to follow another spiritual path, it's normal for doubts and fears to arise.
After all, most religions invest a lot of energy in brainwashing their members. It's a time-honoured tradition, going back for many millennia. They want you to believe that every other religion is evil and you will suffer torments for all eternity if you leave their church.
Religions have always made up stories about how evil their competition is, and how God only loves those who worship the right way.
It sounds ridiculous, when you think about it. Could God be so petty and narrow-minded?
Still, it's an all-too-effective ploy.

Now how does it sounds like to you

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Creationism

Sounds to me like these witches just make up any old nonsense then pretend it's true and try to scare people with the idea of magic menace from questioning their ridiculous notions.

Consider instead the perfect love of Jesus and His temporary sacrifice to save us from the fires of Hell. There's no comparison.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Creationism

You took that out of context

I linked back to the article so that anyone could read the quotes in context. My point was that wiccans think something is true just because they feel it is true. Since whenever we ask you why you believe wicca, you keep telling us to read the links, I can only suppose this is why you yourself believe wicca, because it feels right.

[{Anna}]

Re: Creationism

Sounds to me like these witches just make up any old nonsense then pretend it's true and try to scare people with the idea of magic menace from questioning their ridiculous notions.

Consider instead the perfect love of Jesus and His temporary sacrifice to save us from the fires of Hell. There's no comparison.

Few links
Christianity
Wicca and teachings of Jesus(if teer is nithing there is nothing just scroll down)

I linked back to the article so that anyone could read the quotes in context. My point was that wiccans think something is true just because they feel it is true. Since whenever we ask you why you believe wicca, you keep telling us to read the links, I can only suppose this is why you yourself believe wicca, because it feels right.

Yes-because it feels right
More or less-more I think
but probably not everything
Why do you believe?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Creationism

So why do you use Bible like it was created on Council of Nicaea

We do not use The Bible as though it was created at the Council of Nicaea because it wasn't created at the Council of Nicaea. Genesis, for example - whatever you imagine its origin to have been - would have already to exist SO THAT the Council could include it in their selection. Surely you're not suggesting that the Nicaeans wrote Genesis? The same applies to any document they chose (and to any document they rejected for that matter).

Perhaps you're using "like" in the sense of "like, wow! man" in which case your sentence reads:

paraphrased from your earlier post:
So why do you use Bible? Like, wow! man, I mean it was only created in the 4th century [Council of Nicaea]. Far out.

It is true that in the wicked belief system known as Romish Catholicism, hijacked dogmas have transmogrified into a cacophony of superstition, lies, idolatry, irrelevant appeals to tradition and to the church fathers the whole shemozzle overseen by demonic hoards led (it would seem) by Mammon and any lascivious drunkard welcome. Satan directs the entire operation, has assembled and corrupted various documents and inspired his minions with insane ideas to preserve that bastion of deceit and vice. We are not catholics.

We neither use nor refer to ANYTHING of such hellish origin. Why is it hellish? Because of the consequences following any such creed must inevitably lead to. The consequences plain to see in any papist country.

The Scripture we use is written in Hellenistic Greek and Classical Hebrew. It was not invented in the 4th century. It has not changed ever since it was written as ancient fragments, complete documents, scrolls and whole books testify. The fact that popes down the ages have rendered God's Inspired Wisdom into Latin, insinuated their own lies into their Latin text and cooked up several dozen pre-existing delusions from across Eurasia has no bearing WHATSOEVER upon what Baptists believe.

Did you notice at the top of the page Landover Baptist Church

Baptists are referred to in the original Greek manuscripts; papism is not because papism did not exist. There's no point my posting any links because you clearly have not read much (or any) of the ones you posted for us but here is a little quiz instead.

Landover Baptist Church is

1. Zoroastrian
2. a bunch of Cathar heretics
3. cannibals
4. a Baptist Church
5. a cohort of genital obsessed south sea islanders

you may click on your answer to see if you guessed correctly

.

[{Anna}]

Re: Creationism

We do not use The Bible as though it was created at the Council of Nicaea because it wasn't created at the Council of Nicaea. Genesis, for example - whatever you imagine its origin to have been - would have already to exist SO THAT the Council could include it in their selection. Surely you're not suggesting that the Nicaeans wrote Genesis? The same applies to any document they chose (and to any document they rejected for that matter).

Yes but they decide which books and gospel go in New Testament

Perhaps you're using "like" in the sense of "like, wow! man" in which case your sentence reads:


It is true that in the wicked belief system known as Romish Catholicism, hijacked dogmas have transmogrified into a cacophony of superstition, lies, idolatry, irrelevant appeals to tradition and to the church fathers the whole shemozzle overseen by demonic hoards led (it would seem) by Mammon and any lascivious drunkard welcome. Satan directs the entire operation, has assembled and corrupted various documents and inspired his minions with insane ideas to preserve that bastion of deceit and vice. We are not catholics.

I never said that you are Catholics
I only said that you use same book

We neither use nor refer to ANYTHING of such hellish origin. Why is it hellish? Because of the consequences following any such creed must inevitably lead to. The consequences plain to see in any papist country.

The Scripture we use is written in Hellenistic Greek and Classical Hebrew. It was not invented in the 4th century. It has not changed ever since it was written as ancient fragments, complete documents, scrolls and whole books testify. The fact that popes down the ages have rendered God's Inspired Wisdom into Latin, insinuated their own lies into their Latin text and cooked up several dozen pre-existing delusions from across Eurasia has no bearing WHATSOEVER upon what Baptists believe.

Did you notice at the top of the page Landover Baptist Church

Baptists are referred to in the original Greek manuscripts; papism is not because papism did not exist. There's no point my posting any links because you clearly have not read much (or any) of the ones you posted for us but here is a little quiz instead.

Landover Baptist Church is

1. Zoroastrian
2. a bunch of Cathar heretics
3. cannibals
4. a Baptist Church
5. a cohort of genital obsessed south sea islanders

you may click on your answer to see if you guessed correctly

.

Elaborate this claim further
because I think you're reading same book
and what is difference(except language)
I think you are a a Baptist Church

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Creationism

I never said that you are Catholics
I only said that you use same book

WE DO NOT USE THE SAME BOOK.

I think you're reading same book
and what is difference

The difference is that the Douay-Rheims is not based on the original revelation. It derives from a Latin bastardisation in which key doctrines were deliberately corrupted to serve the interests of a debased and idolatrous "church" in Rome. Additionally, spurious material has been inserted in which themes of magic and occultism are permitted. As a result the catholic church, so called, not only contradicts every tenet of both the New and the Old Testaments but is actually built up on such vile heresy as has produced 2 millennia of torture, rape, poverty (except for their obscenely bloated vatican funded by those least able to afford it) and suffering of every conceivable kind.

Baptists have always used the original material, from earliest times even before Jesus' own baptism, the Scripture existed and historical records were made to preserve information concerning the Life of Christ and the God News of Salvation. Luke, for example, wrote of the acts of the Apostles and the spreading of the Gospel. Paul wrote letters instructing Church leaders. This material was known and used as soon as it was revealed.

The fact that there was a whole lot of other stuff circulating and that it had nothing to do with God's Revelation is immaterial. It is no surprise that satanic cults would use this, they probably wrote most of it anyway! Neither is it a surprise that demon possessed heretics (such as popes and priests) needed to remove all the bogus documents if they were to gain the necessary cred. for their ponzi scheme to get off the ground. But they took care to corrupt it first and did not use the original.

Baptists hadn't been using the bogus material in the first place. We have only ever used the same inspired Word of God that we use today, translated where necessary into our own language, directly from the original as it actually is.

That is why, to answer your original question, we all believe God's explanation of Creation and have no interest in the myriad heresies at large in the world, deceiving, lying, seeking whom they may devour. Their origin is no mystery to us.

I PETER 5
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
KJV

Hallelujah!

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Creationism

Yes-because it feels right
More or less-more I think
but probably not everything

So you believe the parts of wicca that feel right and are supported by alternative science, like magick and out-of-body experiences. Which parts of wicca are you doubtful about?

Why do you believe?

I believe God's word because it's true.

Jn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

[{Anna}]

Re: Creationism

WE DO NOT USE THE SAME BOOK.



The difference is that the Douay-Rheims is not based on the original revelation. It derives from a Latin bastardisation in which key doctrines were deliberately corrupted to serve the interests of a debased and idolatrous "church" in Rome. Additionally, spurious material has been inserted in which themes of magic and occultism are permitted. As a result the catholic church, so called, not only contradicts every tenet of both the New and the Old Testaments but is actually built up on such vile heresy as has produced 2 millennia of torture, rape, poverty (except for their obscenely bloated vatican funded by those least able to afford it) and suffering of every conceivable kind.

Are you saying that magic and occultism are permitted in Catholic church?
What abaut witch hunt

Baptists have always used the original material, from earliest times even before Jesus' own baptism, the Scripture existed and historical records were made to preserve information concerning the Life of Christ and the God News of Salvation. Luke, for example, wrote of the acts of the Apostles and the spreading of the Gospel. Paul wrote letters instructing Church leaders. This material was known and used as soon as it was revealed.

The fact that there was a whole lot of other stuff circulating and that it had nothing to do with God's Revelation is immaterial. It is no surprise that satanic cults would use this, they probably wrote most of it anyway! Neither is it a surprise that demon possessed heretics (such as popes and priests) needed to remove all the bogus documents if they were to gain the necessary cred. for their ponzi scheme to get off the ground. But they took care to corrupt it first and did not use the original.

Baptists hadn't been using the bogus material in the first place. We have only ever used the same inspired Word of God that we use today, translated where necessary into our own language, directly from the original as it actually is.

That is why, to answer your original question, we all believe God's explanation of Creation and have no interest in the myriad heresies at large in the world, deceiving, lying, seeking whom they may devour. Their origin is no mystery to us.

I PETER 5
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
KJV

Hallelujah!

OK

So you believe the parts of wicca that feel right and are supported by alternative science, like magick and out-of-body experiences. Which parts of wicca are you doubtful about?



I believe God's word because it's true.

Jn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

How do you know that Bible is true?
What do you think about this:

Magick is another word for transformation, creation, and manifestation. Wicca magick is a tool we use to act on the subtle - or energy, or quantum - level of reality. The quantum level is the causal realm. It is the subtle influences at the quantum level that decide which way reality will go.
So if you want to manifest something into ordinary reality, you start by stimulating the quantum realm to favour that potentiality.
That is real magick in action.
Science has known since early in the last century that the material world is made up not of matter, but of energy. And while matter is fairly stable, energy is very fluid.