[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Hello.

Anyway this is why I'm Agnostic: I see no evidence for God, no reason for him to exist. But I see no evidence against him either; we simply don't know enough about anything yet. And I fully admit that he could exist, there's certainly enough gaps in our knowledge to allow for it. So, as of yet I am undecided.

There is no undecided. You're either for Jesus or against Him (Mat 12:30). You've obviously decided you don't believe the Bible, as you make clear later in your introductory post. If you don't believe the Bible, you don't believe in the God of the Bible and you don't live according to the Bible. But evidence of God's existence abounds in Creation. Just look around you. Romans 1:18-32 tells me that if you say you don't see God in Creation, you are lying to yourself because you are afraid of God's judgement.

Have you ever considered exactly where it is the Bible comes from?

The Bible came from God.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It wasn't originally written in English; how can you be certain you trust the translation?

Because if I couldn't trust the translation, the Bible would be no good to me or to any lay person.

Can anyone here be certain that what they read is actually the bible?

Yes. Mine has Holy Bible written on the cover.

It has been translated over and over and over and over to get to it's present form, is it not basically 100% certain that SOME parts of it are simply wrong when compaired to it's original scripture?

Not sure what you mean about it being translated over and over. It can be translated into English directly from manuscripts written in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic.

I've also noticed that this forum can be quite judgmental to people of other beliefs, do you not believe that the bible condemns such behavior? Does Romans 14:1-5

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

The key phrase in this passage is in the faith, that is, a fellow Christian, someone who has faith to begin with.

Galatians 3: 28:
There is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

You're cherry-picking verses now. The Bible says a lot about male dominance.

Gen 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Eph 5:22-24 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

The origional Biblical scripts, the ones in which from your bible is translated (the Pseudopigrypha, the Apocrypha and the Gnostic texts, if you do not believe me you may research them yourself) DO NOT support this: In-fact it is condemned as a sin.

I'm not sure what you mean here either. The Bible is not translated from the apocrypha or the gnostic gospels. Those are the books that did not make it into the canon of Scripture. But yes, many of the New Testament apocryphal works opposed male dominance, which is how we know they were not divinely inspired.

But there has been very clear evidence of tampering of the translation of these documents by the male-dominated church.

Where is this very clear evidence?

I hope you decide to stop straddling the razor-wire fence of agnosticism and pick a side.

[Levi Jones]

Re: Hello.

Romans 14:1-1

Not say something to the effect of: "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

You have the context all wrong. Paul is writing not to judge people on whether they eat meat or observe the Sabbath or not. Read it in the King James and it makes more sense.


2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Galatians 3: 28:
There is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

They are all one in Jesus' eyes. On earth there are rules that have to be obeyed.

Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
(Women were created to assist men.)

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
(Women are property. Less valuable than a house but more valuable than slaves and livestock.)

Matthew 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
(Jesus considers women (and children) to be property that can be sold.)

1st Corinthians 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1st Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

1st Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1st Corinthians 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1st Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1st Corinthians 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1st Corinthians 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1st Corinthians 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1st Corinthians 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1st Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

1st Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1st Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1st Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1st Timothy 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1st Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1st Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1st Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1st Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1st Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

1st Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1st Peter 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
1st Peter 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1st Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1st Peter 3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
1st Peter 3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

(the Pseudopigrypha, the Apocrypha and the Gnostic texts, if you do not believe me you may research them yourself) DO NOT support this: In-fact it is condemned as a sin.

Oh? Show me. Chapter and verse please. I have read the Gnostic stuff, but it's completely insane. They claim that Jesus came to overthrow the God of the Old Testament who had become mad.

So you may research that yourself. Though, I am betting what you have actually read of the gnostic gospels could fit into a Fox News article.

Now I would like to make it very clear that I DO NOT wish to offend anyone; but there has been very clear evidence of tampering of the translation of these documents by the male-dominated church,

Oh boy. Here we go with the vast male conspiracy to hide the blah, blah, blah, blah.

It doesn't offend me. It just makes it clear that any part of the Bible you disagree with (like all those verses about women) are coincidentally what you believe are "not part of the Bible according to Timmy".

You think you should be able to throw out anything you don't like and are looking for justification on it. It's just more fence sitting.

You have one foot in Jesus' green pastures where you don't have to think for yourself and you are going to live forever in a place no one living has ever seen.
You have the other one in Satan's cauldron of logic and despair that you may not be the apple of God's eye. He is making you believe that you may be insignificant.

But the good news is that you're not! There is a father for you up in the sky who knows everything about you and you are so precious to Him that He even counts the hairs on your sweet little head.

But if you cross Him and deny Him, he will send you to hell for all eternity!

Matthew 10:28-33
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


Now, which one are you going to believe?



or

[Redeemed Papist]

Re: Hello.

Actually, that seemed like some kind of automated response. This is a thread in the introductions forum.
I am not trying to debate anything, my intention is not to convince anyone, the personal, religious beliefs of others are there own, I have no right to try to convince them otherwise.
I am simply asking questions.

No you aren't. You are stating your beliefs and ignoring the simple fact that they are in total conflict with the words of Jesus. This puts you on a collision course with your creator who has made it clear what will happen when you die. You burn forever. Just in case that one slipped right on past you.

The automated response you should be paying attention to is the holy Bible.

[Jack O'fagan]

Re: Hello.

Anyway this is why I'm Agnostic: I see no evidence for God, no reason for him to exist. But I see no evidence against him either; we simply don't know enough about anything yet. And I fully admit that he could exist, there's certainly enough gaps in our knowledge to allow for it. So, as of yet I am undecided

Grow some balls and make a decision. You are either with Jesus or you are against Him,

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

And what's this crap about gaps? God is everywhere, His word is true, He is responsible for EVERYTHING! Don't do what the fluffy bunny Christians do and try to squeeze God into any gap in scientific knowledge, it's pathetic. Either God is true or science is true, both cannot be, they are mutually exclusive. Do you KNOW that grass was created before the stars were because God tells you this? If so reject science and eternal torment. Do you believe that stars existed before grass was on Earth? If so then spit in the face of sweet baby Jesus, turn your back on God and accept scientific 'evidence'.

GROW SOME BALLS!

YIC

Jack

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Hello.

Not sure what you mean about it being translated over and over.

He must mean translated from Hebrew or Greek into other languages, I'll see if I can do a diagram as an attachment.

Yes, seems to think that getting to English from Greek involves going via all the other languages God's Word has been translated into. Of which there are many.

I'll use The New Testament in my example but the principle is the same for Hebrew or Aramaic
How could anyone be unaware that a simple translation of the New Testament from Greek into English, directly,
would be so straightforward & simple..

and the indirect method [above] so ridiculously complicated & idiotic that no-one would ever attempt it?

Satan is the answer of course. First it's "oh The Bible's been translated so many times" (never any mention of any actual languages), then it's in with the agnosticism (no definition bothered with, who needs to know what the words mean), next up the atheistic agenda, sexual perversions, communism and death camps for Christians. The same old pattern.

What a pity they never READ it.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. KJV

And if you're that fussy
just learn Greek.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Re: Hello.

Hello everybody.
I'm Agnostic - I believe that the universe exists in ways the human mind cannot understand,

Dear Timmy, if that is your name,

You have given the answer to your own doubts in those few words. "In a way the human mind cannot understand." You have a human mind, don't you? So, you are saying that you don't understand.

This is quite normal. We know we cannot understand the mind of God. So, things that are wondrous, yet which we do not understand, are done by God. Let me give you an example:

Imagine you have some nails and a hammer (as the Romans did when they crucified Our Lord). To get the nails to go into the wood, you need, "Something greater" than your hand: a hammer. So, to explain things, there is "Something Greater."

as the Cosmic Microwave Background and Relative Center of the Universe shows. (The center always being point zero relative to the observe AKA YOU are ALWAYS the exact center of the universe,

We know this, so there is no difference between us. The World is the center of the universe and everything revolves around it, and the center of the World is Jerusalem. What could be more obvious?

I have not bothered reading the rest of your wall of text because I am sure that you will be now ready to accept Jesus as your personal Savior.

YIC

[TimmyTheTim]

Re: Hello.

Sorry for the extremely slow reply.
My internet decided it would rather not exist for a few days.
Anyway your time and efforts have been absolutely invaluable to me, thank you all.
While I fully understand that I am not exactly well liked for my beliefs please know that I hold nothing against any of you.

I have no time to respond to the vast majority of the posts here. Although that actually hurts me so, I would REALLY like to discuss some points further, they interest me to absolutely no end. But I understand this is not a debate forum, so I will refrain from doing so.

All I would like to say further is that the bible is simply not enough proof for me to base my entire concept of reality on, it's a book written by men, just because it claims it is gods word that doesn't make it so, because any man can write that it is god's word. And as for what I was talking about earlier I mean anything, Ghosts, UFOs, God, Gods, higher dimensional beings - anything like that, nothing can be proven or disproved definitively due to our collective lack of understanding. Hopefully if God exists he would understand why I am agnostic - surely a being of infinite intelligence and love must understand why I am skeptical of circular logic. If God can see into my very core, I doubt he'd see anything beyond a valid reason for my believing what I believe, otherwise why would I believe it? I would LOVE to think there is a God and a Heaven, but I just see no credible evidence as of yet. Although my opinions mean absolutely nothing, nor should they. I have what I came for now, if anyone is genuinly intresting is a disgussion with me feel free to PM me.

Otherwise, and I mean absolutely no offense by this:
May your god bless you, may you be forever happy and if I truly am a sinner, may I receive the appropriate punishment for it.

[James Hutchins]

Re: Hello.

I seem to have acquired the title of "Teenage pervert."
Hmm.
That just doesn't make any sense, I'm sorry to say.

Welcome Timmy. Are you telling me you are not a teenager? The only people I ever met named 'Timmy' were teenagers or retards.

Why do you hate Jesus? Have you ever bothered to take the time to get to know Him?

[Didymus Much]

Re: Hello.

Sorry for the extremely slow reply.
My internet decided it would rather not exist for a few days...

No worries. I know I (and, I assume, the True Christians™) appreciate you taking the time for a calm, well-reasoned response.

...I would REALLY like to discuss some points further, they interest me to absolutely no end. But I understand this is not a debate forum, so I will refrain from doing so...

Polite questions and discussions (whatever your personal viewpoints) are encouraged here. Repeating tired points over and over after they've been shown to be wrong, not so much. Unfortunately, that is what passes for "debate" on much of the internet.

...Hopefully if God exists he would understand why I am agnostic...

Unfortunately, even if He does understand your reasoning, the Bible says that it will not prevent Him from casting you into the everlasting fire, where the worm dieth not.

...surely a being of infinite intelligence and love...

Wait, I thought we were talking about God?

[Dr. Isaiah Jones]

Re: Hello.

Sorry for the extremely slow reply.
My internet decided it would rather not exist for a few days.
Anyway your time and efforts have been absolutely invaluable to me, thank you all.
While I fully understand that I am not exactly well liked for my beliefs please know that I hold nothing against any of you.

I have no time to respond to the vast majority of the posts here. Although that actually hurts me so, I would REALLY like to discuss some points further, they interest me to absolutely no end. But I understand this is not a debate forum, so I will refrain from doing so.

All I would like to say further is that the bible is simply not enough proof for me to base my entire concept of reality on, it's a book written by men, just because it claims it is gods word that doesn't make it so, because any man can write that it is god's word. And as for what I was talking about earlier I mean anything, Ghosts, UFOs, God, Gods, higher dimensional beings - anything like that, nothing can be proven or disproved definitively due to our collective lack of understanding. Hopefully if God exists he would understand why I am agnostic - surely a being of infinite intelligence and love must understand why I am skeptical of circular logic. If God can see into my very core, I doubt he'd see anything beyond a valid reason for my believing what I believe, otherwise why would I believe it? I would LOVE to think there is a God and a Heaven, but I just see no credible evidence as of yet. Although my opinions mean absolutely nothing, nor should they. I have what I came for now, if anyone is genuinly intresting is a disgussion with me feel free to PM me.

Otherwise, and I mean absolutely no offense by this:
May your god bless you, may you be forever happy and if I truly am a sinner, may I receive the appropriate punishment for it.

Actually the existence of God is very logical and can easily be proven. After all, if there is no God then how do you explain the Bible?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Also, if you're not a Christian then why are you posting on a Christian forum if not with the intention of insulting us for our faith?

[BelieverInGod]

Re: Hello.

Sorry for the extremely slow reply.
My internet decided it would rather not exist for a few days.

Well your average computer is full of demons, except for some reason the computer wiz's demand the British spelling of deamon.

Anyway your time and efforts have been absolutely invaluable to me, thank you all.
While I fully understand that I am not exactly well liked for my beliefs please know that I hold nothing against any of you.

I have no time to respond to the vast majority of the posts here. Although that actually hurts me so, I would REALLY like to discuss some points further, they interest me to absolutely no end. But I understand this is not a debate forum, so I will refrain from doing so.

All I would like to say further is that the bible is simply not enough proof for me to base my entire concept of reality on, it's a book written by men, just because it claims it is gods word that doesn't make it so, because any man can write that it is god's word. And as for what I was talking about earlier I mean anything, Ghosts, UFOs, God, Gods, higher dimensional beings - anything like that, nothing can be proven or disproved definitively due to our collective lack of understanding. Hopefully if God exists he would understand why I am agnostic - surely a being of infinite intelligence and love must understand why I am skeptical of circular logic. If God can see into my very core, I doubt he'd see anything beyond a valid reason for my believing what I believe, otherwise why would I believe it? I would LOVE to think there is a God and a Heaven, but I just see no credible evidence as of yet. Although my opinions mean absolutely nothing, nor should they. I have what I came for now, if anyone is genuinly intresting is a disgussion with me feel free to PM me.

Otherwise, and I mean absolutely no offense by this:
May your god bless you, may you be forever happy and if I truly am a sinner, may I receive the appropriate punishment for it.

So how do you explain 40 authors over a few thousand years getting everything to mesh so well? Especially when you look at fiction that one author had written. It usually has plot holes you can drive a truck through.

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Hello.

Hi friends!

Would somebody please wake me when Timmy posts a proper introduction?

Thanks.

[Alexandria Puckett]

Re: Hello.

Hi friends!

Would somebody please wake me when Timmy posts a proper introduction?

Thanks.

Nap time

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Hello.

You got that right! Has Timmy even bothered to tell us where he attends church or what his favorite Bible verse is?

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: Hello.

the origional Biblical scripts, the ones in which from your bible is translated (the Pseudopigrypha, the Apocrypha and the Gnostic texts

Satan's old trick. "The-Book-The-Bible-Came-From" and perhaps not so surprisingly you haven't even read as far as the front cover.

Perhaps Yale's "The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, vv I&II" [Charlesworth 1983] might be the one you're thinking of? Here's the front cover:

Passing over the meaning of pseud- we find the prefix epi- . Pseud·epi·grapha . would you be able to explain what epi- means please?